Hill reps and speed work

Recently moved to the Fife Riviera, and whilst it's lovely I still don't have access to proper hills from the doorstep.

There is however lots of cross country and trail options so it's not all bad.

Anyway, the local club runs speed work sessions every Monday. Which is all very good, except that it's all on the flat and what I'd really like is to get good at going up hill.

Would I be better off moderating my efforts with the speed work, and adding some hard hill reps later in the week? I've found a small slope that gives 72m ascent in 250m, which seems awfy short to me, there are options that give a longer run in, but the slope tends to be gentler and what I'm after is more power when it gets steeper.

Feedback and general abusive remarks welcomed.

To certain extent doesn't it depend on your desired outcomes. Will you end up doing more trail racing where flat speed is beneficial over hill speed? And 72m isn't shocking my local hill work is 15m of vert!

I think the speed work will do you good, if you can hack the flat. They will help with general speed/strength, so as long as you get some hills in over the rest of the week you should be good :)

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Originally Posted by matthew

To certain extent doesn't it depend on your desired outcomes. Will you end up doing more trail racing where flat speed is beneficial over hill speed? !

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In a nutshell, nope. It's all about the hill, and the steeper and tougher the terrain the better!

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Originally Posted by Dave_Mole

I think the speed work will do you good, if you can hack the flat. They will help with general speed/strength, so as long as you get some hills in over the rest of the week you should be good :)

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Kind of what I was thinking! But I've not really come to that conclusion with any qualified knowledge.

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

In a nutshell, nope. It's all about the hill, and the steeper and tougher the terrain the better!

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Depends where on the Fife Riviera you are. On Largo Law you can get about 150m of climbing in 400m horizontal, which I found just about runnable all the way (this is going back 30 years when I lived up there). Of course, the big one in Fife (if you are willing to go inland) is the 360m of climb from the centre of Falkland to the top of East Lomond, but there was a section near the top of that which I had to walk. And I never did reps on that; just up and down once at the beginning and end of long runs on the Lomonds and Bishop Hill.

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

Recently moved to the Fife Riviera, and whilst it's lovely I still don't have access to proper hills from the doorstep.

There is however lots of cross country and trail options so it's not all bad.

Anyway, the local club runs speed work sessions every Monday. Which is all very good, except that it's all on the flat and what I'd really like is to get good at going up hill.

Would I be better off moderating my efforts with the speed work, and adding some hard hill reps later in the week? I've found a small slope that gives 72m ascent in 250m, which seems awfy short to me, there are options that give a longer run in, but the slope tends to be gentler and what I'm after is more power when it gets steeper.

Feedback and general abusive remarks welcomed.

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No proper hills? Well i'm sorry you just can't consider yourself a 'proper' fellrunner any more, 'proper' fellrunners run on fells. In the meantime, whilst your account is being deleted for reasons of improper fellrunning, i think your small slope is a lot more useful than you think. It works out to a 28.5% or 1:3.5 gradient which is perfect for hill sprint intervals, the one i use is just the right distance so you'll have to mark a spot on yours to sprint up to. Basically you just run as hard as you can up to the spot and engineer the distance so that as you have 5mtrs or so to go you are totally screwed and have to push into oxygen debt and muscle burn, then walk back down slowly as the recovery is important for interval training. The key part is to go as fast as you can all the way and not hold back, if you settle into a steady plod you'll have a lot left in the tank when you hit your stop point. I found that 15 of these was really good for muscle power alone. Obviously you can run the whole hill at a slower pace for more endurance based work.

To be fair, think about Andi Jones. When he lived in Hollingworth most of his running was based around speedwork and fast intervals etc Not a massive amount of hill work and hill sprints, and yet he still managed to win Snowdon, what, 6 times?
Yes hills help, but it seems they aren't necessarily necessary.

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Originally Posted by zephr

To be fair, think about Andi Jones. When he lived in Hollingworth most of his running was based around speedwork and fast intervals etc Not a massive amount of hill work and hill sprints, and yet he still managed to win Snowdon, what, 6 times?
Yes hills help, but it seems they aren't necessarily necessary.

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I think you are right.. its just much harder.

I have lived on the flat for 3 years and do OK when I race in the hills but I train for trainings sake.. Its much harder motivation wise.

We are just about to move to the white mountains of NH and I can't wait to have 3000-5000 ft hills on my doorstep.

Much of my running is very artificial.

I live on the total flat though, and every trail within 20 miles or so is a hard tarmac surface.

I have a sandy trail area 20 miles away that helps, although its not hilly at all the soft nature of the trails makes it hard work so I get a good work out.

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

Recently moved to the Fife Riviera, and whilst it's lovely I still don't have access to proper hills from the doorstep.

There is however lots of cross country and trail options so it's not all bad.

Anyway, the local club runs speed work sessions every Monday. Which is all very good, except that it's all on the flat and what I'd really like is to get good at going up hill.

Would I be better off moderating my efforts with the speed work, and adding some hard hill reps later in the week? I've found a small slope that gives 72m ascent in 250m, which seems awfy short to me, there are options that give a longer run in, but the slope tends to be gentler and what I'm after is more power when it gets steeper.

Feedback and general abusive remarks welcomed.

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I'll come and take you on some hill reps, First week of June :)

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

I'll come and take you on some hill reps, First week of June :)

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Weekend is busy, Glas Tuleichean uphill race. I'll be marshalling and hiding behind the trig most likely, although last year I ended up lying flat on the track to gain what little respite I could from the wind!

A lot depends on what sort of days your looking for with my back to square one fitness level!?

Reading these comments, I think I'll plug in hill sprints into a local XC run once a week. For some reason I don't find these damaging (doms) in the same way as speed work. So I'll just see how it pans out!

I'll start with 5 reps then reassess, or puke.

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Depends where on the Fife Riviera you are. On Largo Law you can get about 150m of climbing in 400m horizontal, which I found just about runnable all the way (this is going back 30 years when I lived up there). Of course, the big one in Fife (if you are willing to go inland) is the 360m of climb from the centre of Falkland to the top of East Lomond, but there was a section near the top of that which I had to walk. And I never did reps on that; just up and down once at the beginning and end of long runs on the Lomonds and Bishop Hill.

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The local is the Binn, but I think 2/3 Lomond's trips is feasible.

I was on the Bishop last night (fnarr fnarr)

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

For some reason I don't find these damaging (doms) in the same way as speed work.

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You're not going fast enough, you have to explode off the spot like a bottle rocket. What do you weigh? I weigh 64kg dripping wet so i don't have a problem attaining speed. If you still find it fruitless then throw in 15 good form squats at the top every time. When i used to do these properly during a bofra season i'd do them in sets of 5, ran both up and down, with 10 squats top and bottom- 4 sets of 5 total 20 reps. It was brutal and always had me walking like i'd shit myself the next day...but such is the demand of a bofra season:cool:

I'm definitely not fast enough!

Weight, quite a bit more than you!

I might actually shit myself, which will make the run back into town more interesting! At least I'd be quick.

Have you been out with the Lomies? I'm sure they'll sort you out.

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Originally Posted by neilly

Have you been out with the Lomies? I'm sure they'll sort you out.

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The only reps those hoodlums do are in the bar!!!

Planned to get out on Tuesday's jaunt but coursework got in the way.

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Originally Posted by shaunaneto

The local is the Binn, but I think 2/3 Lomond's trips is feasible.

I was on the Bishop last night (fnarr fnarr)

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As it goes, 2/3 Lomonds trips are feasible and it's easy enough to get 10/11 miles with 2500ft in. Good easy terrain up there too for the impending night running season.