Plastic cups at races

Hi,
This is my first post on the forum so I hope this is ok...

I've done a few of the bigger fell races now in the Lakes and the Peaks as well as a load of mountain marathons. I've absolutely loved the fell races, however one thing that I can't always help but notice is the amount of plastic cups used during and after them. It seems that there are stacks of them at water points then at the end even more, plus there's normally another set of disposable cups for tea and coffee. None of these are normally recyclable, and in a field of around 300, if each runner uses one cup on the course, one at the end for juice then another for a tea, this is nearly 1000 cups used by the end going to landfill! If this happens at every race through the year, fell running as a sport is surely producing a lot of landfill waste.

I was wondering if this has ever been discussed before- I couldn't find any previous threads on the forum (although I might have missed it). With the new plastic bag tax people are now used to bringing their own bags to the shop; could there be a push to get fell runners to bring their own mugs/water bottles to races? It seems that people normally stash a jumper or something at the end anyway so they could bring a mug for tea, and if you have a bottle you can normally pick water up on the course, or fill that at a water station instead of a disposable cup. Or any other ideas? In the grand scheme of things is it an issue at all?

One thing I really feel is that this should be an issue for runners rather than race organisers who have enough to worry about already!

Very good point and I must admit I assumed that plastic cups were recyclable unlike coffee cups which are often plastic coated cardboard. However theory and practice are very different so eliminating waste at source is by far the best. My daughter is studying marine biology and the amount of plastic that makes its way into the oceans one way or another is truly staggering and the effects will be with us for ever.

In a similar vein, apparently fleece is also bad, especially if you wash it, as bits of it find their way into the water system.

Many orienteering events now state in details no water will be provided and competitors should bring their own.
I think this is appropriate for the end of fell races. I'll often have a bottle with me but will use stuff put on by the RO just 'cos it's there.

I've been at some races where mid-race water points are reusable beakers - expensive up-front but surely a cost-saver over time, especially if they're used over many races. Washing may be a bit of a pain though. Maybe the FRA could purchase a stock for use by ROs, as with their big tents/walkietalkies etc.?

I know a lot of cups are used at the end of races as I've helped putting them in to bin bags.

Not having done many AL race's can someone tell me which fell races provide drinks on route please?

Of the big Lakes and Welsh AL's, the only ones I can recall are Wasdale (Joss Naylor helps to hand them out early on in the race at Greendale). Also Welsh 1000m they have a bit of food and drink, although I suspect this is because there are the other classes (mountaineers, walkers, etc) rather than catering towards the fellrunners.

bigfella: Wow I had no idea about fleece! Maybe I'll just stop washing mine now haha. Also yes it seems some of the plastic only cups are recyclable- but yeah like you said they might not get recycled and it's better to not use them at all if possible?

ba-ba: I thought about that but it just seems it would make life much more difficult for the race organisers- another thing to get ready, have to tidy away and worry about. It's so much easier just to buy plastic cups. I've done a bit of orienteering and they seem to just ditch any idea of water and get a pint at the pub instead!

Stagger: Of the ones I've done all but one had water; Wasdale had water at Greendale, the 3 Peaks and the Edale Skyline both had several water stops, the Trigger definitely had something at Snake Pass and I seem to remember picking up water at Borrowdale last year- but I might be wrong, and it might have only been because it was a champs race. The only one that didn't was Kentmere (but I think that's AM?). Maybe it's a skewed image though as they're all bigger races I suppose.

It seems as though cups are re-used a lot more at water stops in the race though, and it would be much easier to try and recycle them as it's the only rubbish you've got. I suppose the main waste comes from the cups used at the end which also go in general rubbish bins, and which is more unnecessary as it would be perfectly possible for people to have their own mug at the end.
I remember at the Rab MM it was unlimited tea and coffee at the end if you had your own mug, but was otherwise very expensive. Maybe the same would work at races? Charging people for cups might be a bit harsh though after a long hard run. But it could certainly raise a lot of money for Mountain Rescue from the proceeds...

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Originally Posted by Fellwanderer94

The only one that didn't was Kentmere (but I think that's AM?).

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Kentmere had plastic cups at the finish.

Many LDWA events require competitors to bring their own mugs.
Of course, the total number of plastic cups used by all the fell races in the calendar is probably less than at a single big city marathon, but that's another issue.

Good point Fellwanderer.
Everything adds up. Not just the cups themselves, but the idea of things being disposable. The Lakes Sky Ultra was, bring your own cup. The GL3day is free tea, hot water but bring your own and I have seen one top fell runner, using carrying a mug, on the LDMT. No water stations on the LDMT, it was his hydration system.

For years now, races in the Alps have required you bring your own drinking vessel. It's usually part of the required kit.Their is a widespread acceptance that carrying plastic into sensitive mountain areas is barmy.

Lots of different makes available.

I picked up one a few years back made by Salomon of the same material as their soft flasks. It weighs almost nothing and I rarely leave home without it clipped to the relevant item carrying my kit. Even when out walking.

I'me clueless why we're so backward with this stuff in the UK. The FRA should act to ensure plastic cups are not used in their permitted races to get things rolling.

water stations on a fell race?? Never heard of such a thing! Whats wrong with a quick scoop from a stream?
God gave you a cup...its called a hand!

Splitting hairs - I wouldn't call them water points per sey - except at the 3 peaks. They're more handy road crossings - If there wasn't a road there wouldn't be any water - i.e. Ennerdale!

But yes reducing plastic footprint is maybe something that should be raised.

I organise the Trotternish Ridge Race. We have water at two of the checkpoints-5 litre bottles that runners can fill their own bottles from. I was emailed just prior to the race by an entrant. He was asking that we supply plastic cups at the CP's as he felt it was 'unhygienic' to share!!! wtf! The race is run over a Site of Special Scientific Interest. We have enough hoops to jump through by SNH/RSPB without having to worry about litter too.

hells teeth, what has the world come to! Folks will be wanting RO's to sweep routes clean of sheep poo next!!!

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Originally Posted by neilly

I organise the Trotternish Ridge Race. We have water at two of the checkpoints-5 litre bottles that runners can fill their own bottles from. I was emailed just prior to the race by an entrant. He was asking that we supply plastic cups at the CP's as he felt it was 'unhygienic' to share!!! wtf! The race is run over a Site of Special Scientific Interest. We have enough hoops to jump through by SNH/RSPB without having to worry about litter too.

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I hope you advised him, to stick to trail running.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

water stations on a fell race?? Never heard of such a thing! Whats wrong with a quick scoop from a stream?
God gave you a cup...its called a hand!

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Ha ha! v true Wheeze. Hands are not so good for your post race cup of tea. ;)

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Originally Posted by neilly

I organise the Trotternish Ridge Race. We have water at two of the checkpoints-5 litre bottles that runners can fill their own bottles from. I was emailed just prior to the race by an entrant. He was asking that we supply plastic cups at the CP's as he felt it was 'unhygienic' to share!!! wtf! The race is run over a Site of Special Scientific Interest. We have enough hoops to jump through by SNH/RSPB without having to worry about litter too.

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i think that using either my Rab MM mug (2013) or Cader Race mug (2011) as a mug is unhygienic now as they have been used for various paints, storing screws, washing brushes and collecting bugs, I won't be taking them to any race soon.

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Originally Posted by neilly

I organise the Trotternish Ridge Race. We have water at two of the checkpoints-5 litre bottles that runners can fill their own bottles from. I was emailed just prior to the race by an entrant. He was asking that we supply plastic cups at the CP's as he felt it was 'unhygienic' to share!!! wtf! The race is run over a Site of Special Scientific Interest. We have enough hoops to jump through by SNH/RSPB without having to worry about litter too.

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Ha, I stopped using plastic cups at my race as I found that kids running about on the field waiting for the finish were having a slurp and sticking the cups back on the table:D I ended up using bottled water as I had nightmares over the though of litigation if everyone got the galloping trots

What's this talk of plastic cups and water? I thought a few pints in the local pub after a race were all that was needed...

Seriously though, aside from the waste/environment issue, this whole hydration issue whilst running is massively overplayed. Admittedly on a scorching hot day on a long race you'd be a fool for not planning your own hydration but most of the time it's not needed. Dr Tim noakes debunked this year's ago.

I managed a four hour run in pretty horrible conditions (which probably helped a fair bit) over the weekend with a few hand-fulls of water from a stream about 2/3 of the way around!

Generally anything under two hours I would not bring/need any water with me.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Seriously though, aside from the waste/environment issue, this whole hydration issue whilst running is massively overplayed. Admittedly on a scorching hot day on a long race you'd be a fool for not planning your own hydration but most of the time it's not needed. Dr Tim noakes debunked this year's ago.

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What Wheeze said. I do roll my eyes when I see people out for a 20 minute jog clutching bottles of water.

The last time CFR organised the FRA relay's at Ennerdale we had to supply bottled water rather than barrels of the stuff to comply with the rules. As it was a poor day most were left unused. Less cups I suppose but even more plastic to deal with and unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by SCOOT

we had to supply bottled water

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Was it the FRA? I assume this is a result of the litigation culture we now have. Somebody gets the trots due to dodgy water and off they go to their solicitor. And who looses - the environment.

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

Was it the FRA? I assume this is a result of the litigation culture we now have. Somebody gets the trots due to dodgy water and off they go to their solicitor. And who looses - the environment.

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I believe it was.

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Originally Posted by SCOOT

I believe it was.

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Well that's news to me, and I was FRA Chairman at the time and one certainty is that the FRA had no fear of being sued by anyone over "dodgy water" since the Relays were then and have always been a British/UK (now British Athletics) Relay and never the "FRA Relay".:D

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

Well that's news to me, and I was FRA Chairman at the time and one certainty is that the FRA had no fear of being sued by anyone over "dodgy water" since the Relays were then and have always been a British/UK (now British Athletics) Relay and never the "FRA Relay".:D

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Apologies Graham. I replied without getting my facts right. I have always referred to the relays as the FRA relays and I suspect many others do too. I'm sure they would have a far more sensible approach.

So what would the FRA response have been if the possibility of cross contamination had been brought to their attention, a recommendation that RO conduct a risk assessment, a blanket requirement, bottled water be available to all competitors, that no water should be made available, ....

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Originally Posted by SCOOT

Apologies Graham. I replied without getting my facts right. I have always referred to the relays as the FRA relays and I suspect many others do too. I'm sure they would have a far more sensible approach.

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It's OK. I am frequently amused when I turn up to fell races to hear the RO announce "what the FRA says must be done" when the FRA has never said any such thing. But why worry? It's only fell running.:D

Some races have more chance of cross contamination than others - often a shared giant plastic tub of water for all to dip into. The last time I did Borrowdale, this was on offer. Finishing well down the field , there was a fair mix of sweat, grass, mud and sheep shit in the water off of runners hands who'd slipped somewhere on the course. I have to say, I actually appreciated the extra nutrients this afforded at the time and am still alive :D Any foul taste was soon washed down with the delicious tea and sarnies at the Institute!

when Blisco Dash was a champs race there were communal buckets. As a short champs race the women raced before the men. A certain fell running legend, upon finishing the women's race, was seen to dunk her entire upper body in the bucket, before many of the women's field and the entirety of the men's had used it...

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Originally Posted by ba-ba

when Blisco Dash was a champs race there were communal buckets. As a short champs race the women raced before the men. A certain fell running legend, upon finishing the women's race, was seen to dunk her entire upper body in the bucket, before many of the women's field and the entirety of the men's had used it...

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Well I wonder if that was the same cfrl who allegedly demanded priority at the Three Peaks Race when there was a long queue before the climb up to Whernside or indeed the same cfrl who allegedly interrupted a recent men's prizegiving after she finished her race to demand her Vet Cat prize?;)