Disused quarries

Disused quarries: dangerous places where people fall off cliff faces or drown in lakes — or wonderful recreational facilities?

I have occasionally referred to Longcliffe quarry on the Today’s Training thread. I don’t go there very often, and usually there are only a few other people there when I do; but on one recent warm, sunny day, it was teeming with people, none of them more than half my age. These young people go swimming in the lake, they do cliff-diving, rock-climbing, mountain-biking, or simply sun-bathing and hanging out with friends. I do personally know some young people who go there quite frequently; when they first told me about what they do there, I gave them the usual warnings about the dangers of these activities, but they already seemed to have a fairly good grasp of the issues. And that is the point: we live in a world full of all sorts of dangers, and we learn to cope with them by progressively exposing ourselves to more hazardous situations, in the company of more experienced friends — just like a fell runner will gradually progress from local BS races to Wasdale and Ennerdale.

Now my young acquaintances have told me that on their latest visit to the quarry, the hole in the fence giving access had been sealed up (but they had easily found a way round that), but once in the quarry they were confronted by Security staff with dogs. These men asked them to leave, and told them that someone had recently been killed diving into the quarry. Now, I read the local paper every week, and I think such an event would have been reported if it had actually happened.

I feel really angry about this. The young people have found this quarry, they have made it their own (although they could show it a bit more love; there is an appalling amount of litter scattered around), and devised their own activities. These activities are healthy (both physically and mentally); they are not safe, but I think that Safety is sometimes the enemy of Health. They are not endangering anyone else except possibly by their parking of cars on the road near the quarry. They will undoubtedly find other ways to explore danger and prevent boredom, maybe by driving at stupid speeds along country lanes, or by taking drugs. Who benefits from depriving these people of their recreation?

End of rant.

[More on Longcliffe and other local quarries here: http://www.focf.org.uk/pdf/quarries.pdf . Ignore the dreadful presentation of this document, a lot of what it says is very sensible.]

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Disused quarries: dangerous places where people fall off cliff faces or drown in lakes — or wonderful recreational facilities?

I have occasionally referred to Longcliffe quarry on the Today’s Training thread. I don’t go there very often, and usually there are only a few other people there when I do; but on one recent warm, sunny day, it was teeming with people, none of them more than half my age. These young people go swimming in the lake, they do cliff-diving, rock-climbing, mountain-biking, or simply sun-bathing and hanging out with friends. I do personally know some young people who go there quite frequently; when they first told me about what they do there, I gave them the usual warnings about the dangers of these activities, but they already seemed to have a fairly good grasp of the issues. And that is the point: we live in a world full of all sorts of dangers, and we learn to cope with them by progressively exposing ourselves to more hazardous situations, in the company of more experienced friends — just like a fell runner will gradually progress from local BS races to Wasdale and Ennerdale.

Now my young acquaintances have told me that on their latest visit to the quarry, the hole in the fence giving access had been sealed up (but they had easily found a way round that), but once in the quarry they were confronted by Security staff with dogs. These men asked them to leave, and told them that someone had recently been killed diving into the quarry. Now, I read the local paper every week, and I think such an event would have been reported if it had actually happened.

I feel really angry about this. The young people have found this quarry, they have made it their own (although they could show it a bit more love; there is an appalling amount of litter scattered around), and devised their own activities. These activities are healthy (both physically and mentally); they are not safe, but I think that Safety is sometimes the enemy of Health. They are not endangering anyone else except possibly by their parking of cars on the road near the quarry. They will undoubtedly find other ways to explore danger and prevent boredom, maybe by driving at stupid speeds along country lanes, or by taking drugs. Who benefits from depriving these people of their recreation?

End of rant.

[More on Longcliffe and other local quarries here: http://www.focf.org.uk/pdf/quarries.pdf . Ignore the dreadful presentation of this document, a lot of what it says is very sensible.]

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The security were possibly referring to this http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/lakes/...f2c570c5eed-ds obviously not the quarry you visit but a definite stark warning that sometimes people need protecting from themselves :(

And in some cases the law could impose a duty of care on someone who owns or is responsible for the quarry, a duty of care to the general public who may attempt to access the quarry. Preventing access may be the best way to avoid liability for negligence.

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Originally Posted by Daletownrunner

The security were possibly referring to this http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/lakes/...f2c570c5eed-ds obviously not the quarry you visit but a definite stark warning that sometimes people need protecting from themselves :(

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Originally Posted by benshep

And in some cases the law could impose a duty of care on someone who owns or is responsible for the quarry, a duty of care to the general public who may attempt to access the quarry. Preventing access may be the best way to avoid liability for negligence.

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Yes, I had suspected that the landowners may be concerned about litigation in case of an accident in the quarry. Commonsense dictates that if someone is injured or killed while trespassing on your land, having broken down your fence, then you (the landowner) can't be held responsible. But commonsense and the law are two different things.

A week or two before my acquaintances met the security team in the quarry, the Leics police had posted on social media a list of warnings about the dangers of the quarry lake -- although the post also included the words, "We are not looking to spoil anyone's fun . . .". I am entirely in agreement with this approach; what upsets me is that someone has now decided that the informal use of the quarry should be totally prevented, even after steps have been taken to warn people of the risks.

An insecure fence is "in effect" inviting them in. So the owner would be libal. This is established in case law.

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Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry

An insecure fence is "in effect" inviting them in. So the owner would be libal. This is established in case law.

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Link?

Here’s what the HSE says about quarries, both working and abandoned,

http://www.hse.gov.uk/quarries/country.htm


An interesting line is

‘In many instances, risks at abandoned quarry sites are similar to natural features encountered in open countryside and will be obvious to visitors’.

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Originally Posted by Mike T

Link?

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Something that was discussed in university years ago.

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Originally Posted by Daletownrunner

Here’s what the HSE says about quarries, both working and abandoned,

http://www.hse.gov.uk/quarries/country.htm


An interesting line is

‘In many instances, risks at abandoned quarry sites are similar to natural features encountered in open countryside and will be obvious to visitors’.

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Thank you, Daletownrunner, that article is really useful. I have used it in composing a letter to the local paper, which last week published the warnings from the police which I mentioned in an earlier post.

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Thank you, Daletownrunner, that article is really useful. I have used it in composing a letter to the local paper, which last week published the warnings from the police which I mentioned in an earlier post.

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No worries, it’s a hive of info that HSE website ;)

I cannot remember all the details but there was a case years ago where a lad fell off a steep path and was significantly injured and his family tried to obtain compensation saying there should have been signs/barriers but they lost the case as the dangers were ordinary and obvious. This may of course not apply to quarries where the dangers may be hidden, unusual, and unexpected.

Similar thing in Ireland, a woman won a case after slipping on some railway sleepers, on a path in the Wicklow Mountains National Park.

She finally lost in an appeal.

http://www.thejournal.ie/hillwalker-...44946-Feb2017/

From a Mountain Rescue point of view. we do a lot of training in a local quarry. kids play in and around it at times...

This happened last week..

https://www.facebook.com/WoodheadMou...UCmBhc&fref=nf

5th July

Woodhead Mountain Rescue Team

5 July at 05:17 ·
...

CALLOUT: The team were called out last night at 20:36 to Thurlstone Quarry to assist Yorkshire Ambulance Service with an incident that ranks no1 in the lucky to be alive charts!

Two friends had been planning some climbing routes in the quarry previously and tonight decided to do a little cleaning on the crag face by abseiling down.

They had set up a belay at the top and was about to clip in when the whole of the top of the crag gave way beneath one of the climbers sending him plummeting to the bottom of the crag some 7m, unbelievably the climber managed to stay on the rock avoiding the unthinkable and lay in wait for the emergency services to arrive.

He was treated for suspected spinal injuries and a possible leg injury, transferred into a vacuum mattress for immobilization and onto the stretcher for the carry out of the quarry to the ambulance.

In attendance tonight was also Yorkshire Air Ambulance crew and the Hazardous Area Response Team ( HART) along with Yorkshire Ambulance Service.

Great multi agency teamwork for one lucky lucky rock surfing fella!

Interestingly, the warnings from the police about Longcliffe quarry focus on the dangers lurking in the water at the bottom of the quarry, and don't refer to the rock faces. On the other hand, the author of the document that I linked in my original post seems to be primarily interested in rock-climbing; he displays pictures of climbers in the quarry, and concludes with a reference to the Peak District Minerals Strategy referring to restoration of old quarries:

”The creation of appropriate recreational use of disused quarries e.g.liaise with minerals operators over the end-use of quarries(where not already determined) to leave quarry faces in sound condition suitable for future climbing sites or to leave spoil mounds suitable for mountain bike or vehicular off-road courses.”

Clearly, "leave quarry faces in sound condition suitable for future climbing sites" hasn't been done at Thurlstone!

that sort of illustrates the point perhaps: it's only really 'safe' (even then it's obviously not risk-free) if someone qualified has taken responsibility for making it safe. otherwise, how does anyone know if it's safe to play on just by looking at it?

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Interestingly, the warnings from the police about Longcliffe quarry focus on the dangers lurking in the water at the bottom of the quarry, and don't refer to the rock faces. On the other hand, the author of the document that I linked in my original post seems to be primarily interested in rock-climbing; he displays pictures of climbers in the quarry, and concludes with a reference to the Peak District Minerals Strategy referring to restoration of old quarries:

”The creation of appropriate recreational use of disused quarries e.g.liaise with minerals operators over the end-use of quarries(where not already determined) to leave quarry faces in sound condition suitable for future climbing sites or to leave spoil mounds suitable for mountain bike or vehicular off-road courses.”

Clearly, "leave quarry faces in sound condition suitable for future climbing sites" hasn't been done at Thurlstone!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Interestingly, the warnings from the police about Longcliffe quarry focus on the dangers lurking in the water at the bottom of the quarry, and don't refer to the rock faces. On the other hand, the author of the document that I linked in my original post seems to be primarily interested in rock-climbing; he displays pictures of climbers in the quarry, and concludes with a reference to the Peak District Minerals Strategy referring to restoration of old quarries:

”The creation of appropriate recreational use of disused quarries e.g.liaise with minerals operators over the end-use of quarries(where not already determined) to leave quarry faces in sound condition suitable for future climbing sites or to leave spoil mounds suitable for mountain bike or vehicular off-road courses.”

Clearly, "leave quarry faces in sound condition suitable for future climbing sites" hasn't been done at Thurlstone!

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I'm not sure that's the reason.. things degrade over time.

Interestingly last night at an exercise at a crag it was noted that there was lots of loose rock about due to the ground shrinking because of the lack of rain..

Boulders well set into the earth had big cracks around them.

Two news items that I have seen today: a 17-year-old died while swimming in a quarry lake in Warwickshire, and a 14-year-old is missing having gone swimming in the sea off Clacton. A rather tragic illustration of the fact that both quarry lakes and natural water bodies can be dangerous.

With regard to Longcliffe quarry, the subject of my original post: I have discovered that it is going to be used for dumping ash from an incinerator, I mean "energy from waste facility", that is going to be built in the nearby Newhurst quarry. So an area that is great for outdoor recreation as well as having a fair amount of wildlife is going to be destroyed.