Devolution nonsense.

I've never been a fan of devolution but this pandemic has underscored what a nonsense it is. The different restrictions programme was bad enough but the vaccination mess is the last straw. Whilst the press is trumpeting that vaccinations for the over 70s can now begin (the over 80s in England having now been done), my mother who is 87 and lives in North Wales has heard nothing about getting a jab. Its a damned poor show. The Welsh politicians should hang their heads in shame. I thought we were in the UNITED kingdom!

You are spot on Wheeze.

My in-laws who live near Rotherham had their SECOND jab on the 5th January.

I have an uncle and aunt, both in their eighties, in Mid Wales who have not heard a thing.

And I'm not allowed to go "home"

We had the standard letter through a couple of days back, which basically said we would be vaccinated and in this order. Otherwise sit and wait!
Wales is definitely dragging it's feet with the program, thought weeks ago the politicians were claiming we were all up and ready to go?

I've never been a fan of devolution in the way Blair did it.
The model they had gave a 3 tier system for the Celtic nations and nothing for England. Their plan for England was to divvy us up in to areas and when the North East devolution referendum was defeated by 78% to 22% they scrapped the English dog's breakfast.

I doubt you can roll it back, but if we were to have a lasting structure it would be for the 4 home nations to all have equally devolved powers and for MPs to sit in both the UK Parliament and the Devolved assemblies, that could sit at alternate times.

But my gut feeling is against it.

I also dislike the Police Commissioner elections, which are largely a nice little earner for the party faithful, as are these metro mayors.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

I've never been a fan of devolution but this pandemic has underscored what a nonsense it is. The different restrictions programme was bad enough but the vaccination mess is the last straw. Whilst the press is trumpeting that vaccinations for the over 70s can now begin (the over 80s in England having now been done), my mother who is 87 and lives in North Wales has heard nothing about getting a jab. Its a damned poor show. The Welsh politicians should hang their heads in shame. I thought we were in the UNITED kingdom!

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Clearly Wiltshire is also on the devolution list! My 86 year old mother, who lives in the county, hasn't heard from anyone about a CV vaccine jab, despite having a troop of carers, etc. visiting her home every day. She's hesitant about phoning her GP to inquire as she'd heard on TV that GP surgeries are swamped by calls, and everyone should wait to be called.

I wonder what the real percent of over 80 year olds who haven't had a jab yet is - across the whole UK.

Ah...headline can be misleading. Apparently:

"Nadhim Zahawi, the minister responsible for the vaccine rollout, defended the decision to offer Covid jabs to the over-70s and clinically vulnerable.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme on Monday that the over-80s "need not worry" if they hadn't yet been invited for a jab.

He said as it was only areas where the majority of the over-80s had been vaccinated that people aged 70 and over were being invited for jabs. He added that by today, 50% of care home residents should have been vaccinated."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55698132

Perhaps less of a devolution issue but more to do with local clusters?

Sorry to hear that Mossdog. Sounds like the press muddying the waters as usual Maybe the tory press are feeding a feel good line? Whats the Grauniad saying about it?

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Sorry to hear that Mossdog. Sounds like the press muddying the waters as usual Maybe the tory press are feeding a feel good line? Whats the Grauniad saying about it?

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Thanks Wheeze. These days I rarely visit the Grauniad website as, like Channel 4 News, it's reporting of 'news' and expressions of opinion frequently causes my blood-pressure to spike.

The Westmorland Gazette https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/ or similar offer a much healthier choice.

This from the BBC:

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Wales' First Minister Mark Drakeford has defended the pace of the vaccine roll-out after facing criticism that it has been too slow.

Just over 88,000 people have received their first dose in Wales, about 2.6% of the total population - compared to 5.8% across the whole UK.

Mr Drakeford told BBC Radio 4's Today programme on Monday that supplies of the Pfizer vaccine had to last until February and were being deployed at a steady rate.

"There will be no point, and certainly it will be logistically very damaging, to try to use all of that in the first week and then to have all our vaccinators standing around with nothing to do for another month," he said.

He said that supply was still the limiting factor and that the differences between parts of the UK were "very marginal".

Former Welsh Secretary Stephen Crabb said Mr Drakeford's comments were "astonishing" and called it a "go-slow" vaccine roll-out.

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Originally Posted by noel

This from the BBC:

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That seems a very odd explanation from Drakeford. They are spacing out the vaccinations until they receive their next delivery. Surely the best thing to do would be vaccinate as quickly as possible. Ok they might run out but at least the recipients would be acquiring some immunity as soon as possible. Spreading them out needlessly risks people getting the virus when they could have been vaccinated.

I had just read that on the Wales news and it rather left me scratching my head in puzzlement. Thought if they have the vaccine they would whack it in as quick as possible, once used they could pressure for more doses.
Not sure who the vaccinators are, but I'm pretty sure they could find something else for them to do if they run out of vaccine, rather than "sit around doing nothing".
But what do I know, leave it to the politicians.

I guess it depends what might be required to speed up delivery in terms of recruiting extra qualified people to administer the vaccine and equip vaccinations centres etc.

Its just nonsense and p!ss poor organisation. There's absolutely no excuse for deliberately slowing the rate of vaccination!

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Originally Posted by molehill

I had just read that on the Wales news and it rather left me scratching my head in puzzlement. Thought if they have the vaccine they would whack it in as quick as possible, once used they could pressure for more doses.
Not sure who the vaccinators are, but I'm pretty sure they could find something else for them to do if they run out of vaccine, rather than "sit around doing nothing".
But what do I know, leave it to the politicians.

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So on this basis if one had found oneself, say, facing down Bill the Kid in a gun fight the best advice is not to fire one's bullets too quickly so as to leave some for the next gunfight?

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

So on this basis if one had found oneself, say, facing down Bill the Kid in a gun fight the best advice is not to fire one's bullets too quickly so as to leave some for the next gunfight?

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That does seem to be the reasoning, as if one did use all the bullets and kill young Billy too quickly, then there would be no work for the deputies to do. Bored deputies are dangerous deputies :rolleyes:

Might it be that they haven't actually employed enough people yet (a decision informed by the knowledge of how much vaccine they have and when they get the next batch). So the people "sitting around" are hypothetical.

That might make sense - in a kind of messed-up way if you were trying to cover your back as a politician.

I don’t think roll out speed of vaccinations for covid will have a great deal to do with devolution to be honest. It’s probably more to do with the Pfizer vaccination being the most prominent at the minute and that it’s the one that causes the most logistical difficulties. Therefor its easier to roll out in big conurbations and a bit more difficult in big areas of lower population. And Wales and Scotland both have a lot of the latter and proportionately less of the former compared to England.

Wales and Scotland have both vaccinated c 4.8% of the population so far and England and Northern Ireland seem to be doing better with c 6.2% and 6.6% vaccinated respectively. I’m sure that there will be big regional variations within those figures though - I doubt we here in the Yorkshire Dales are being vaccinated at the same speed as London for instance.

All that devolution has done is to separate and isolate regional variations between the countries

(That said, it was a twattish statement from that welsh minister)

It's simple, the Welsh First Minister said they were deliberately limiting the roll out of the vaccine.

That is stupidity of the highest order.

He should go; he's clearly inept.

If as some are suggesting it was to cover up for other issues, then he's a bare faced liar on the most critical issue of the day.

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

It's simple, the Welsh First Minister said they were deliberately limiting the roll out of the vaccine.

That is stupidity of the highest order.

He should go; he's clearly inept.

If as some are suggesting it was to cover up for other issues, then he's a bare faced liar on the most critical issue of the day.

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Mark Drakeford is probably a decent enough bloke for all I know (although an academic career lecturing in Social Administration?) and he's probably doing his very best. However, whenever I hear his podium announcements about the pandemic there's just something a little nettling and disquieting about his manner. I have this faint suspicion,completely unfounded, that perhaps. perversely, he's enjoying his moment of limelight just a little too much. I don't get the same impression from Boris, although I'm no BJ fan.

Probably just my irrational prejudices about people who slouch at podiums in public - but hey, I've said it now.

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

I don’t think roll out speed of vaccinations for covid will have a great deal to do with devolution to be honest. It’s probably more to do with the Pfizer vaccination being the most prominent at the minute and that it’s the one that causes the most logistical difficulties. Therefor its easier to roll out in big conurbations and a bit more difficult in big areas of lower population. And Wales and Scotland both have a lot of the latter and proportionately less of the former compared to England.

Wales and Scotland have both vaccinated c 4.8% of the population so far and England and Northern Ireland seem to be doing better with c 6.2% and 6.6% vaccinated respectively. I’m sure that there will be big regional variations within those figures though - I doubt we here in the Yorkshire Dales are being vaccinated at the same speed as London for instance.

All that devolution has done is to separate and isolate regional variations between the countries

(That said, it was a twattish statement from that welsh minister)

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Is the Pfizer vaccine still the most prominent of the vaccines? I'm not so sure. The huge increases in vaccinations generally in the last week would suggest that it is the logistically much easier to distribute Oxford/Astra-Zeneca vaccine that is now coming to the fore.

When I last looked a few days ago the figures for England showed that the North East and Yorkshire had vaccinated the most, while London was near the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

Is the Pfizer vaccine still the most prominent of the vaccines? I'm not so sure. The huge increases in vaccinations generally in the last week would suggest that it is the logistically much easier to distribute Oxford/Astra-Zeneca vaccine that is now coming to the fore.

When I last looked a few days ago the figures for England showed that the North East and Yorkshire had vaccinated the most, while London was near the bottom.

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I think the figures are all a bit back of a fag packet to be honest. In the Times today they quoted regional differences for vaccinations in England with 10% for the South West and 4% for Yorkshire and the North East! :)

In fairness the logistics of vaccinating elderly in a a large rural area with low population density will be challenging. Taking a vaccine that is difficult to store (temperature) and has to be delivered quickly - getting it out to care homes that house 10 or 20 people plus carers all round the countryside is going to be slow work. This is people that cannot drive or be taken to centres for vaccinating.

But there are also large cities and towns with high population which could be done and we were also told categorically before the vaccine was rolled out that Wales was up and ready to go, and fast.

So there is not really any excuse, delivery method and prioritise of vaccine should have been sorted .
Sit and wait for our turn, but Drakeford's comments are just dull, the back peddling doesn't help either.

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

I think the figures are all a bit back of a fag packet to be honest. In the Times today they quoted regional differences for vaccinations in England with 10% for the South West and 4% for Yorkshire and the North East! :)

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I don't think they are back of a fag packet, somebody is actually keeping track. This appears to be the official source.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistic...-vaccinations/

The latest figures per region for England are:

Attachment 8875

I could hear the slapped foreheads in the Senedd from hear! What a ridiculous thing to say. Dont forget, in England the Army have been brought in to do vaccine logistics. Last time I looked, Wales didnt have its own army!

Hopefully all will run much smoother when/if we have to do it all again next year, and the year after that...!

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Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever

I don't think they are back of a fag packet, somebody is actually keeping track. This appears to be the official source.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistic...-vaccinations/

The latest figures per region for England are:

Attachment 8875

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I was meaning the percentages (of population) figures, given that muddy retriever had seen figures showing Yorkshire and the north east doing well whilst the times had seen figures saying something different. I think the official figures, probably rightly, are trying to avoid percentage success so as to minimise local regions being compared and this stirring up a bit of a hoo hah.

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

I was meaning the percentages (of population) figures, given that muddy retriever had seen figures showing Yorkshire and the north east doing well whilst the times had seen figures saying something different. I think the official figures, probably rightly, are trying to avoid percentage success so as to minimise local regions being compared and this stirring up a bit of a hoo hah.

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Yes, it was a bit meaningless. What we needed was another column showing those numbers as a proportion of those who are in the categories that are being offered the vaccine at this stage.

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

I was meaning the percentages (of population) figures, given that muddy retriever had seen figures showing Yorkshire and the north east doing well whilst the times had seen figures saying something different. I think the official figures, probably rightly, are trying to avoid percentage success so as to minimise local regions being compared and this stirring up a bit of a hoo hah.

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If we take it as percentage of population then London has done even worse since it has a larger population than the North East and Yorkshire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England

Actually, I think they should post the percentages of people vaccinated by region, get a bit of competition going to shame those slacking.

Somebody I know who is 76 has his jab booked in for next Tuesday in Harrogate. Come on Yorkshire!

Nearly a quarter of over 80s received first dose in Wales, got some catching up to do. This is nearly as bad as our rugby results :(