Kiss of life?

Back in the mists of time, I started the "Quiet Around Here" thread as an ironic challenge for forumista to post at a (rare) time when no-one else was active. Usually something daft like 3 am.

Now, of course, it is quiet around here most of the time. Indeed, forum luminary, Noel, was moved to comment "It's definitely quiet around here at the moment. Has the art of talking bollox around set subjects left us?".

The repeated batterings delivered by divisive and suppressive issues such as Brexit, the Pandemic and Safety seem to have finally beaten the life out of the forum, plus Facebook has stolen a march on the main way for members to communicate.

Back to those mists of time, non other than Gravymuncher opined that, in general, Fora would eventually blow themselves out once people got fed up with talking about the same old things time and time again.

So, are we at the moment now? Has our once vibrant and fun Forum staggered into the Grim Reapers waiting room. Should Brett be released from his chains to do something more useful instead?

I have my own views on this but before I spout my bollox, lets have a discussion.

I do have one initial suggestion though. Is it time to replace our avatars with a picture of ourselves, to give the forum more genuine personality? Swoop was always unabashed about this.

Not for me. I like the relative anonymity of the forum much more than people I know listening in on Facebook.

Where else could I talk to odd bods from Wales about similar interests?

I had a solid bash at trying to post some fell running positive stuff but, in reality, no one was much interested. Equally I’d comment on other threads that I’d want to chip in on and most of the time killed them dead :). Don’t get me wrong it’s not anybody else’s fault that they’re not interested in my ‘bollocks’ but at the same time it underlined that maybe I’m just not tuned in with the remaining die hards on the forum

Just rename the forum cycling ;)

There's plenty of people who are interested in fellrunning posting on here.... I for one on the training thread... along with llani, and MikeT keeping the exercise thread going single-handedly... and various others chipping in when races come around... MrBrightside another...

There's no doubt it could do with some more regular posters, but this place is a goldmine of info and would be very sorry to see it disappear.

The facebook page is grim reading... the multiple threads about the recent WFRA "saga" descended rapidly into farce and several threads deleted as people couldn't get on without arguing (admittedly i fired a few shots myself, including at a past/lapsed member of the forum).... and there's been about 6 "what shoe" threads this week alone...

Fellbeast, I was actually very interested in your running routes around the dales. I spent many a weekend in my teens walking and wild camping anywhere within a bus ride of Skipton. Nowadays I enjoy walking there with my wife when I can and the inspiration of a few well chosen routes is always welcome.

Your drone footage also offered a different view of some otherwise well known areas.

Negative comments are often from a minority, it's just that the silent majority are just that, silent. The thread about bubbles in Silva compasses could lead you to believe that its a major problem but there are surely many more forumites with perfectly good compasses, I have 3 of them.

Suppose I am in the silent camp, but I don't think I'll ever make it into a majority.

I value reading all the info and thoughts on here. I'll chip in when I think I've got something useful to add, maybe I should post more, maybe I should learn something useful to so I can mention it. :)

There is a veritable mine of useful stuff on here and the value of forums is that it can be found (dug up) easily. That no one is repeating the same thing many times doesn't mean someone isn't reading the original and benefiting.

MikeT provides my daily dose of envy.

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Originally Posted by Travs

There's plenty of people who are interested in fellrunning posting on here.... I for one on the training thread... along with llani, and MikeT keeping the exercise thread going single-handedly... and various others chipping in when races come around... MrBrightside another...

There's no doubt it could do with some more regular posters, but this place is a goldmine of info and would be very sorry to see it disappear.

The facebook page is grim reading... the multiple threads about the recent WFRA "saga" descended rapidly into farce and several threads deleted as people couldn't get on without arguing (admittedly i fired a few shots myself, including at a past/lapsed member of the forum).... and there's been about 6 "what shoe" threads this week alone...

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To be fair you and Mr Brightside definitely post a lot of really good, if slightly obsessive*, fell running training and race related stuff although I'd argue that, like me, you're often shouting into your own little well on the forum and listening for echos. Llani Boy (despite politically being somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun :)) posts across the board and I like his (non-Attila the Hun related) stuff a lot. As for Mike T, I already get to see his runs on f/b but with actual pictures :)

As for what shoe threads on the fell running facebook page, well they have 21,000 members in the group so if there's 6 "what shoe" threads per week, it would take over 67 years for all of the members to have a what shoe thread of their own :)

*Not implied as an insult by the way, I think everyone on the forum me included is probably an obsessive

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Originally Posted by bigfella

Negative comments are often from a minority, it's just that the silent majority are just that, silent. The thread about bubbles in Silva compasses could lead you to believe that its a major problem but there are surely many more forumites with perfectly good compasses, I have 3 of them.

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??? WHAT?? I think that sometimes we need a tongue-in-cheek emoji or some device to flag up that something is humour/light-hearted as a cue to members of the readership who perhaps take issues too literally, miscontrue and then take an uncalled for swipe. One of the great attraction of this forum is the often off-beat sense of humour, like the days before the B word was coined, and it's been encouraging to see how recently the old civility has returned to replace that post-B rancour (well excpet of the safety threads ;) )

I really believe that this forum could and probably should be the font of all fell running knowledge and experience. I became a member when I first got interested in fell running, but had no idea where to start (I have always lived in a flat area, and there was no interest or knowledge at the running clubs I joined). What little I do know originated from this forum.

I fully deleted my Facebook account earlier this year, as I didn't have the time to wade through an ocean of rubbish to find what I was interested in; I'd like to think that 32 years of designing, developing, implementing and teaching software programs had taught me something about the user interface, and the one FB uses is sh*t.

The response from Fellbeast's excellent routes was disappointing. Whilst I, and probably him too, was expecting that someone might step up and bring us routes from their area, there was just polite silence.

I think the main problem is that far too few of the members are actually prepared to post something of any content; pithy one liners don't count. I appreciate we can't all write as well as Tindersticks, or take photos as good as Fellbeast, but I know that we could all write something of substance and interest from time to time. And unless we do see more contributions from more of the members, there will only be one result

Fellbeast's thread was excellent.

I just think there's a couple of issues....

1) last time i checked there still seemed to be some issues posting photos/maps/etc... i think you Marco posted up a way to get round it, and obviously Fellbeast managed as well... but to be honest if i can't just click an icon and load the photo (similar to everywhere else on social media) it just becomes too much of a ball-ache. I'd happily start adding photos to my training posts otherwise.

2) A lot of similar subjects are spread over several threads.... main example is everyone's running/training diaries... i'm on Today's Training... MrB has his own thread... MikeT effectively has his own thread... you could possibly argue that Fellbeasts routes could also have come under the same thread as all of these, and we'd have an absolutely thriving running/exercise/training thread....

But on the above point you can't really win, as then we'd have a lot less active threads. The only remedy in my eyes is to gain more members, or people to start posting up more often. Neither of which can be forced.

I echo what Marco says about this place... i'd have found it a hell of a lot harder to get into fellrunning (or more appropriately fellRACING) without this place. There's not many races, training issues, injuries, that aren't covered on this forum somewhere.

Odd bod from Wales, to the right of Atilla the Hun. Lovely!

Don't worry I'll NOT be getting my coat.

BTW Fellbeast, I also was interested in your run routes but didn't comment as they are a bit far away and thought that as I hadn't done them I was not in a position to comment.

Anyway, how's the knee and are you still running?

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Originally Posted by bigfella

Negative comments are often from a minority, it's just that the silent majority are just that, silent. The thread about bubbles in Silva compasses could lead you to believe that its a major problem but there are surely many more forumites with perfectly good compasses, I have 3 of them.

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More on compass bubbles :-

https://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/show...126#post676126

Not entirely negative as it has worked for me in the past and saved quiet a few quid.

Leftie pinko from Yorkshire who may well be running with Llani soon. We are a broad church and I hope it stays that way. Its a great place to visit and has given me loads of laughs and a lot of information. Reminds me of loads of areas of Britain I have run/walked in and hope to return to. There have been a few tricky patches that probably put a few people off, but stick with it. I hope Brett can put up with us for a bit longer.
And as for the FB page - I watch it, but it's so hard not to post comments just taking the piss. What Fell shoes - For me as a dry stone waller; it's got to be wellie's.

3 shoe posts on the Facebook page today alone.

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Originally Posted by Travs

3 shoe posts on the Facebook page today alone.

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Hurrah. Tbf i would never have dared post such a stupid question on here. I would just carefuly read and research and then i would be all knowing about studs, heel rub and uppers and all that .....

And I love the pithy one liners.

They are the best bit.

To be fair, I did ask on here what was the best "all round" fell shoe, as I only wanted to start off with one pair. So I can understand some of the questions when people are starting off. (I bought a pair of mudclaws in case anyone was interested!)

But people asking which shoes will fit their abnormal-shaped heels/toes/etc... Or should they buy a size 9 or 9.5, or what shoe for the Snowdon Race with a 76% probability of drizzle on the way down...

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

Anyway, how's the knee and are you still running?

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My knee, touch wood, is the best it’s been all year right now and I’m starting to be able to run quite well again. To be fair I completely f**ked my knee again at the end of June and my knee recovery went through a deja vu all over again recovery mission but I think I’ve got there. Taking it steadier this time round

This was me celebrating my first proper run up Penyghent at the beginning of this month

https://youtu.be/pogGs2C-6lU

I'm not on Facebook but my son borrowed my phone to look at something on his account and since then I seem to be able to view it. Mostly I find it confusing - it's harder to follow particular threads and comments than it is on here and yes, I do find some of the posts 'surprising'. But what I have noticed looking at it this last week is that two significant bits of fell running news, one very sad, seem to have completely passed this forum by. I refer to the cancellation of the OMM and significantly to the death of a very well respected member of the fell running community to whom many of us owe a great deal. Maybe (like me) others didn't feel it appropriate for them to announce it on here, thinking perhaps a close friend or family member might instead. But I was surprised both things were on FB but not here. Perhaps that says a lot about the use the forum now gets.

Travs posted here on Thursday that the OMM had been cancelled.

As for announcing a bereavement, that is a difficult one. I can't see why people would want to announce one on Facebook. How very un-personal.

I'm not on Facebook either.

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Originally Posted by Llani Boy

Travs posted here on Thursday that the OMM had been cancelled.

As for announcing a bereavement, that is a difficult one. I can't see why people would want to announce one on Facebook. How very un-personal.

I'm not on Facebook either.

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He did indeed Llani and I read that too. So we're not out of touch with the likes of that youngster keeping us right :)

On the point of the OMM, after the 2008 media debacle the OMM organisers are being understandably cautious. I've seen the BBC footage of Derwent merging with Bassenthwaite, but now take a lot of mainstream media coverage with a pinch of salt. I've been over to Eden a couple of times this last week, but can't speak for what was going on weatherwise over in the Lakes. Anyone closer to west Cumbria have any info about the situation?

I missed Trav's post about the OMM. I don't think the FB posting about a death was likely to be how it was announced in the normal meaning in that context. It's not that unusual on here for the death of someone well known in the sport to be posted but I'm sure not until it's been made known to family and close friends. I was just surprised that when someone of that stature who has contributed so much to our sport passed away it wasn't mentioned on here. Maybe that was his families wish, which is why I'm not naming him publicly now.

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Originally Posted by Mossdog

He did indeed Llani and I read that too. So we're not out of touch with the likes of that youngster keeping us right :)

On the point of the OMM, after the 2008 media debacle the OMM organisers are being understandably cautious. I've seen the BBC footage of Derwent merging with Bassenthwaite, but now take a lot of mainstream media coverage with a pinch of salt. I've been over to Eden a couple of times this last week, but can't speak for what was going on weatherwise over in the Lakes. Anyone closer to west Cumbria have any info about the situation?

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The conditions in the Lakes in the last week or so have been safe for experienced competitors - lots of streaming and standing water, rivers are in spate, and the terrain is very slippery. Having said that, depending on the routes undertaken, there might have been some dodgy river crossings. But the main problem was the event marquee being blown down, and the Great Langdale road itself has apparently sustained considerable surface damage. And the event parking field would have been a mess in no time.

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Originally Posted by Travs

1) last time i checked there still seemed to be some issues posting photos/maps/etc... i think you Marco posted up a way to get round it, and obviously Fellbeast managed as well... but to be honest if i can't just click an icon and load the photo (similar to everywhere else on social media) it just becomes too much of a ball-ache. I'd happily start adding photos to my training posts otherwise.

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From what I see, as member, it is only possible to upload photos with a very small filesize (so a tiny picture) to the forum. Even then, they don't appear automatically and you have to click on a link.

From what I can see I think it would require either a substantial update or a new forum to allow all photos to be uploaded directly. Even if this route was to be pursued, the handling of an ever increasing number of photos would mean that the forum would need extra storage facilities as well.

Six months ago, to the day for obsessive types, I posted instructions for using a free photo sharing site that would allow photos to be attached directly to your post. The instructions are at #7541 of Today's bike ride.

It's easier and simpler to use than Facebook, and the technique I outlined will also allow you to attach a photo to an email - so it has other uses too. It's not difficult, but if anyone tries it and has problems I am happy to assist; anyone with a teenage child/grandchild should be fine!

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

I do have one initial suggestion though. Is it time to replace our avatars with a picture of ourselves, to give the forum more genuine personality? Swoop was always unabashed about this.

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Mine is of me! I'm hoping to meet you all at a fell race sooner or later, now you all know what my distinctive forehead looks like. ;)

I think this place has something FB can't offer- wisdom. It's buried in the annals and reams of various threads and it's archived for future reference. It's about keeping the old place warm and draught free until the congregation returns.

Thanks all. You've made my heart warmer and covered most of the points I would have made. Glad we agree.
Sorry Brett, game is still on!🤣

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

I think this place has something FB can't offer- wisdom. It's buried in the annals and reams of various threads and it's archived for future reference. It's about keeping the old place warm and draught free until the congregation returns.

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I like where you’re coming from but it’s not absolutely true is it? I follow Killian Jornet on Twitter and Instagram and loads of other U.K. top fell runners like Ricky Lightfoot. All on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram but not here… :rolleyes:

There is still a place for the forum but it is long overdue a facelift. Hopefully none of the historical threads and their wealth of information would be lost in the process.
Improvements I'd suggest would be the ability to easily add pictures -cloud storage costs nothing these days -and the ability to 'like' posts. I read a lot of threads, think they have merit but don't feel the need to respond. Perhaps even a read count would be a good thing. This would at least show contributors were being acknowledged.

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

I like where you’re coming from but it’s not absolutely true is it? I follow Killian Jornet on Twitter and Instagram and loads of other U.K. top fell runners like Ricky Lightfoot. All on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram but not here… :rolleyes:

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I can't say that i've ever really read anything on facebook by any of the "stars".... perhaps i've not been paying attention.

On here there are pages of info and route hints about just about every fell race ever ran. Not to mention advice on training/injuries/etc.... for the "rank and file" fellracer/runner i think this place has far more value.

I'll readily acknowledge that for keeping up with race dates/results/photos/changes of info, facebook is absolutely invaluable.

Although not on Facebook I look at it from time to time to keep up with events/changes of info as referred to by Travs, especially for WFRA stuff. It is a pain though as every few seconds a page pops up, obscuring what I am reading, telling me to log in to my account which I keep having to delete.

I must say that many of the videos put on sites like FellrunnersUK by both top and average runners are just blatant advertising of a product and/or themselves!

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Originally Posted by PeteS

There is still a place for the forum but it is long overdue a facelift. Hopefully none of the historical threads and their wealth of information would be lost in the process.
Improvements I'd suggest would be the ability to easily add pictures -cloud storage costs nothing these days -and the ability to 'like' posts. I read a lot of threads, think they have merit but don't feel the need to respond. Perhaps even a read count would be a good thing. This would at least show contributors were being acknowledged.

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Like 😊

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Like ��

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Yeah, +1. User interface upgrade with more content related features, i'd pay an extra quid on my annual subs for it.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Thanks all. You've made my heart warmer and covered most of the points I would have made. Glad we agree.
Sorry Brett, game is still on!��

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I think there are a lot more ideas we need to bring up and discuss. You may well know the quote credited to, but believed not to have originated from, Albert Einstein

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

If we keep on doing what we have been doing then the forum will stay as it is, and its active membership will slowly dwindle.

We could introduce a new category, called 'News' or 'Breaking news', where announcements such as 'OMM cancelled', 'Four Fans race moved to July 16th' or 'Llani Boy wins 2022 Welsh M60 championship'. It would draw more people to look at the forum, particularly if it was supported by some quality posts and wouldn't be difficult to implement using the existing infrastructure.

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Like 😊

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This is very interesting and topical as the FRA are in advanced stages of developing a new website and you may have seen the new Races/Results platform. Brett has taken the opportunity to retire from the FRA Committee after more than 20 years of loyal service and the future of the Forum will come up for review shortly. My observations are that there are no women and it comes over as a bit of a Gentlemen's Club where old timers all know each other. I would support a change to real names and photos which would make contributors more recognisable and approachable to new members. If pseudonyms are used then there should be a signature, to identify the poster.

I agree that there is a wealth of valuable information but there are also some threads and posts which have nothing to do with fell running and which do not reflect well on the FRA.

So, is there anyone on here who would be interested in working with the FRA to form a small sub-committee / working party to formulate a plan to revive what was a good source of information, to encourage new members and thereby to protect the future of the Forum going forward.

If you are interested, then drop me a line to
[email protected]

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Originally Posted by Charmian

This is very interesting and topical as the FRA are in advanced stages of developing a new website and you may have seen the new Races/Results platform. Brett has taken the opportunity to retire from the FRA Committee after more than 20 years of loyal service and the future of the Forum will come up for review shortly. My observations are that there are no women and it comes over as a bit of a Gentlemen's Club where old timers all know each other. I would support a change to real names and photos which would make contributors more recognisable and approachable to new members. If pseudonyms are used then there should be a signature, to identify the poster.

I agree that there is a wealth of valuable information but there are also some threads and posts which have nothing to do with fell running and which do not reflect well on the FRA.

So, is there anyone on here who would be interested in working with the FRA to form a small sub-committee / working party to formulate a plan to revive what was a good source of information, to encourage new members and thereby to protect the future of the Forum going forward.

If you are interested, then drop me a line to
[email protected]

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Whilst i understand where you're coming from on this point, not everyone on here is ancient....

I'm still in my 30's (for another 6 months anyway!)..... ba-ba is younger still, and maybe in his 20's still (and someone suggested above that there are no high-level runners posting on here, i think they are doing ba-ba a massive dis-service). In the aftermath of the Dragons Back this year, we had very interesting forum posts from two of the top 6 finishers.

Calvin used to post on here, and may still do occasionally, he must be late 20's-early 30's and a regular poster on the facebook page too.

It's certainly true that there is quite a lot of familiarity on here, and indeed i think i've met the majority of regular posters on here at least once.... but even the small number of regular posters on here come from a wide geographical area with a wide variety of backgrounds.

I totally agree on some of the off-topic/political posts and whether we like it or not, this is a forum linked to the FRA and it does not reflect well. However this does seem to have calmed down a great deal, due to either the odd banning, and the disappearance of a couple of the more volatile posters on such subjects.

Also agree on the lack of female voices... but you can't force people to post or join up if they don't want to, and i don't think it's necessarily a stick that can be used to beat the forum down. We could do with more regular posters, male or female...

On the subject of anonimity... i'd have no problem posting under my real name... i think most people on here know who i am, and i know who they are... not sure everyone would be in agreement though.

This is probably an old-fashioned view... but i get the feeling a lot of people would rather spend time on facebook discussing shoes and lightweight jackets... its the easy option, rather than thinking about training harder, learning race routes, losing a couple of kg (would make so much more difference than buying a shoe which weighs 25grammes less!!)...

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Originally Posted by PeteS

There is still a place for the forum but it is long overdue a facelift. Hopefully none of the historical threads and their wealth of information would be lost in the process.
Improvements I'd suggest would be the ability to easily add pictures -cloud storage costs nothing these days -and the ability to 'like' posts. I read a lot of threads, think they have merit but don't feel the need to respond. Perhaps even a read count would be a good thing. This would at least show contributors were being acknowledged.

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Originally Posted by Fellbeast

Like ��

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Originally Posted by mr brightside

Yeah, +1. User interface upgrade with more content related features, i'd pay an extra quid on my annual subs for it.

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There's a serious flaw in your thinking, which implies you didn't read JohnK's recent post (below) and click on the first of his links (I can't get the second one to work).

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Originally Posted by JohnK

Here are some navigation hints or maybe not from wayback when the forum had a sense of direction.

https://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/show...ght=navigation.

Loads more here :-

https://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/sear...earchid=513249


A lot of names there that are certainly missed on the current forum

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The example JohnK gives, from the 'golden age' of the forum, is a thread that flowed between June and October of 2009. The thread has 90 posts from 34 contributors, of which only three can be recognized by their forum name. Likewise, only four of the contributors have photos from which they could, possibly, be identified and only one has signed his name

The thread that JohnK has chosen as an example of the forum is about navigation but there is not a single photo, picture or map. It is all words, and if you doubt me I suggest you read it. So if we could have a quality thread about navigation without photos then, why will having easier to add photos change anything now?

I think it is a cop-out. Saying that we'd have more members, and more interest, on the forum if we had a single-click feature to load photos is untrue and the 2009 thread proves it. Those people who really want to add photos are already doing it, and those people who aren't can't be bothered.

On the ability to 'like' posts, why do we want the forum to look and behave like Facebook? The logical progression from this would be to move to Facebook. And if we did have a 'like' facility, should we go the full hog and only offer the most liked posts and threads for viewing by default? Is this what we really want?

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Is it time to replace our avatars with a picture of ourselves, to give the forum more genuine personality? Swoop was always unabashed about this.

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and Danbert was.

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Originally Posted by Marco

There's a serious flaw in your thinking, which implies you didn't read JohnK's recent post (below) and click on the first of his links (I can't get the second one to work).



The example JohnK gives, from the 'golden age' of the forum, is a thread that flowed between June and October of 2009. The thread has 90 posts from 34 contributors, of which only three can be recognized by their forum name. Likewise, only four of the contributors have photos from which they could, possibly, be identified and only one has signed his name

The thread that JohnK has chosen as an example of the forum is about navigation but there is not a single photo, picture or map. It is all words, and if you doubt me I suggest you read it. So if we could have a quality thread about navigation without photos then, why will having easier to add photos change anything now?

I think it is a cop-out. Saying that we'd have more members, and more interest, on the forum if we had a single-click feature to load photos is untrue and the 2009 thread proves it. Those people who really want to add photos are already doing it, and those people who aren't can't be bothered.

On the ability to 'like' posts, why do we want the forum to look and behave like Facebook? The logical progression from this would be to move to Facebook. And if we did have a 'like' facility, should we go the full hog and only offer the most liked posts and threads for viewing by default? Is this what we really want?

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Don't like :-)

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Originally Posted by Marco

The thread that JohnK has chosen as an example of the forum is about navigation but there is not a single photo, picture or map. It is all words, and if you doubt me I suggest you read it.

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Well said.

Reid Enwright