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And I don't mean those from eastern Europe. I mean those that you use to help you uphill. I was very surprised, as were many others, to see someone, using 2 'walking sticks' in the Ennerdale fell race. Any thoughts on this? The 'racer' finished very well up.
Never seen this in Uk races but have heard about people doing BG's with poles...
In my very limited knowledge of European races I've heard that quite a lot of the pack use poles. They have the excuse that their mountains are bigger or something like this...:confused:
The bottom line is that it is giving the runner an advantage over others of the same fitness level, so in all fairness either everyone uses poles or nobody uses them simple really.
rules needed!
Why are rules needed?
There are too many rules already!
Why shouldn't poles be used? They may help for part of the route but they have to be carried for the rest of it.
Here is an article about Walking Poles
The main purpose of walking poles is to make money for the manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer.
Don't be fooled by advertising blurb about the benefits or the desire to follow fashion.
IMHO the only use of poles in fell races would be to to trip up other competitors.:mad:
Advantage? Personally I'd find them a complete pain in the arse! You could argue that choice of shoe gives an advantage over people of a similar fitness level?Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister
You could vault over streams with them. Or dance round them...
The person in question is/was? a member of the british ski mountaineering team so I reckon if anyone knew how to use poles then he would.
He would also be at the sharp end of races with or without poles being a multiple elite mountain marathon winner.
not fussed if people use poles or not.
The amount of TOG walker who click, click, click past our door using these bloody things puts me off ever using them.
Until one starts wearing blue hair rinses, hiking boots to walk on the tarmac lanes or smelling of talc-powder and piss, there is no sane reason for using poles.
Just an observation, I happen to know several TOG's and they are generally nice people.
Oh dear! Sounds like crossover from other sports means we're starting to get "innovations" creeping in to fell races. I mean camelbacks are aesthetically unpleasing enough :D without the visual and aural pollution of 100 pairs of poles clattering round the fells.
What next? the <insert name of pole manufacturer here> British Fell Running Championship?
Reminds me of cycling and triathlon. Dodgy aero helmets and guys racing in bikinis. Wtf?:confused:
Interesting debate
I've used poles for walking in the Lakes and trips to the Alps, Pyrenees etc for years and find they give two advantages - help you walk uphill more efficiently but also protect suspect knees etc downhill.
I've never run with them but tend to think they'd be counterproductive as I can't think you'd use them downhill, where for me they give most help.
I don't see point in banning them but equally can't see them catching on for UK fell running.
If using them helps older people get out into the hills when without they could no longer manage it then that's a good thing IMO.
Sticks & poles are officially banned in races as of about 4 years ago. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by invalidpassword
Regards,
Max. ;)
End of that debate then!
Glad to hear that but I can't seen anything in my handbook or on the FRA pages. Can someone clarify, otherwise I can see the day when we have to start up the pressure group; Concerned Runners AgainstQuote:
Originally Posted by Max
Poles.
Poles certainly give an advantage uphill.
I think they're dangerous - imagine 200 fell runners all running with poles. Someone's eye out for sure!
I had a Pole do my wall papering in my old house - it was good!
I've got know problems with them.
Sticks as well as poles banned, eh? Well why is that Wharfedale blighter still turning up at races then? Think he better forfeit all prizes won to Grifter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
Oi! That is so unfair and well, just not right. I must appeal...!Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
So that's why I never win a race :mad:
I knew there must some reason....;)
Ay lad...med a start on that today eh :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Flange-Nibbler
I dont know where it says "walking sticks" or "ski Poles" are banned. I think the fact that all your mates and fellow runners would take the p*ss non stop and make a point of beating you to the 'top' everytime you used them. They've been using them on the continent for years and it hasn't caught on because of the traditional mickey taking sense of humour of the Brits. I remembered some photos I'd seen from the Sky Buff Runner series so I dug a couple up. Incidentally I dont recall seeing anybody carrying them downhill? These two are from the Dolomites race on the 24th July 2005. Click on them for a larger version.
Oh and I wouldn't mind using a set comming down grassy bank at Ben. As I'm right at the back and on my ars* by then I would be past caring who took the p*ss. Anyone want to carry some to the top for me?:o:o:o
I suggest they put sharp spikes on the bottom and then they could pick up all the Go Gel packs some one left just before Blackbeck tarn:mad:, and then when they get back to the finish give the offender a good beating with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by invalidpassword
Maybe its only in SCOTLAND :cool: that aids are banned, but that is the rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar
Regards,
Max. :cool:
...it's just not British is it! I noticed the guy on the start line and did wonder what on earth he was doing with two very long wooden poles strapped to his back. he may be a very fit guy but, as someone said earlier, if 200 runners had them what a mess it would be. Keep them out of the sport.
Was sat on Kirk fell & it did seem a bit surreal to see someone with poles moving towards us.
2 things I bet they are not wooden (carbon fibre i dare say) and why would you have a mess if 200 runners had them?? 2000 used them on the Utmb and I can't remember a mess!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobster
One of the joys of fell-running is the lack of rules and regulations - all this poles should be banned business is nonsense. All sorts of kit and equipment appear and either become adopted if they are generally successful or fade away if they aren't. This is reminiscent of the "Joe Brown-and-Don Whillans didn't-have-Friends-so-you-shouldn't-use-them-on-their-routes" type of argument that some tedious old duffers in the climbing world come out with from time to time.
Anyway back to the point: the runner in question was using them in part as an experiment and concluded they were of no real use in British fellrunning because of the continuously changing terrain, This was despite the dry weather and firm ground underfoot which one might have favoured the use of poles.
So I don't think we'll be seeing hundreds of them at Borrowdale.
That's the end of that debate, then?
Can we use tri - bars?
Yeah, but no drafting!Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
No, thats very naughty.Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
aye...'n that's where tha can stick 'em!Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
end of story (no doubt some prat'll keep it goin):D
What's that then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
Errr....
Quote:
Originally Posted by wharfeego
Give me two mins and I'll explain it....Quote:
Originally Posted by brett
Quite a few runners on the fellsman used poles, don't know if they helped as some of 'em were behind me and i'm not quick!
The grand union canal race has banned them as they are as dangerous as riders shoving them in the spokes during the tour de france!:eek:
Would tend to agree with Dominion. However, I went around most of the Borrowdale course last year with a pair of Pacer poles just to see what they are like. I found that my steep ascending improved, that knees and ankles were nicely protected on descents BUT I felt generally shattered at the end maybe because I was using different/additional muscle groups . Furthermore, the messing around with unnecessary carrying must take its toll. The only way they would work for me in racing, is if a pair were left at the bottom of steep climbs and I could throw them aside at the top. So that would be a few pairs of poles and more debris on the fells that would make Go gel tabs seem like the golden age of litter.Quote:
Originally Posted by dominion
Hiya,
Blimey - that caused a bit of a stir! Yeah, I think a bit of explanation might be in order - but it's good to have sparked an interesting debate off on this one in any case.
Running Ennerdale with poles on Saturday was basically just a training run for something else, not part of any plan to start using them in UK fell races. Because of the job I do, nowadays I live & work in the Alps for a large chunk of the year - so mostly race in France during the summer - where as several folk have mentioned, quite a lot of people use poles in the longer mountain races.
Problem is, it's quite hard finding good places to train with them in the UK, so I asked the organiser at Ennerdale if it was Ok to use them as a training run for for some of the longer continental races I've got lined up this summer (Mt Blanc Ultratrail etc) and also specifically asked to put me down as non competitive in the results if anyone minded me using them.
The organiser was fine about it & we agreed on keeping them out of the way till folk thinned out on the hill etc. Naturally we also had quite a bit of discussion going on before and after the race amongst various mates & other runners about whether they might be any use in uk races too - but having run round Ennerdale with them, I'd say the answer is a definite 'no chance they'll ever catch on!'
ie It's too rough + too many short climbs & descents in British races for it to ever be worth doing the large amount of pole training required to make any potential difference. For UK races you'd be far better off doing all your hill training without poles, than by splitting your training time between uphill pole training + pure uphill running training, which is what I do in order to train for the French races.
Using poles can make a considerable difference out there - but only in longer races and you do have to train with them a lot. ie on races where you've got long climbs, generally on a path, with a steady gradient so you can get into a proper rythmn. A lot of the runners you see using them also do ski mountaineering competitions in the winter - so they know how to use the poles efficiently & train with them year round.
So I wouldn't worry too much, it was just some wierdo on a training run - and fell running's not about to be overrun by hordes of lycra wearing continentals tripping everyone up with trekking poles! Soon as I get back in the Autumn, mine are going straight back in the cupboard so I can start doing some proper running...
See you at Langdale,
Al
PS - most common piss take on Saturday: "tha's a bloke here wi' 2 snooker cues on 'is back!" - I had 3 of them on the way round!
Hi Al - interesting comments.
Having said that he way you got over the first stile with one pole looked impressive...
That's the end of that, then?
Yeah - before I bought a pair to use out in the Alps (initially for the MB Ultratrail) - the only thing I'd noticed was that non of the winners ever seemed to use them - so I was a bit sceptical at first, but they definitely do work:
http://www.alpine-guides.com/blog/?p=115
To get the most out of them, it helps if you do a lot of this though:
http://www.alpine-guides.com/blog/?cat=27
('ski mountaineering' is basically winter fell running for Swiss people - you often see the same people winning the spanish & italian skyraces as win their ski mtneering competitions in the winter too. Can't see the clothing catching on on the fells though - but we did get Ben Bardsley into a Lycra catsuit a few times last winter!)