learning BGR sections

I'm keen to become familiar with the whole of the BGR route and hopefully complete the challenge in a couple of years time. I know section 1 reasonably well now, mainly because it's nearest to my house and is easy to complete without having to use two cars or bikes etc to get from end to start.

A mate of mine is also keen to learn the route but he usually works until 11am on a Sunday, which is the day I tend to go fellrunning (and I prefer to go much earlier than that.) So I'm appealing for anyone in a similar situation really - someone who would benefit from teaming up for lifts etc and who
is also looking to learn the sections.

I am currently full of enthusiasm for the BG, having supported George and Gerry a couple of weeks back (Mrs. C. and The Master).:D

I am keen but have VERY limited time... probably unlikely to get up there in the next couple of months.

However, the occasion may arise where our calenders co-incide we could recce any of it, but I particularly need to look at Legs 3 & 4.

If you were to pm me when you have plans and there's probably an opportunity to come in the coming months... I just don't know when.

Merrylegs may well be useful contact... I believe he's planning his BG for next year.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by bestathlete

I'm keen to become familiar with the whole of the BGR route and hopefully complete the challenge in a couple of years time. I know section 1 reasonably well now, mainly because it's nearest to my house and is easy to complete without having to use two cars or bikes etc to get from end to start.

A mate of mine is also keen to learn the route but he usually works until 11am on a Sunday, which is the day I tend to go fellrunning (and I prefer to go much earlier than that.) So I'm appealing for anyone in a similar situation really - someone who would benefit from teaming up for lifts etc and who
is also looking to learn the sections.

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About to start getting up there again...out for 3 months with an achilles injury....happy to join up & know the route, but it will be slow for some weeks yet.

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Originally Posted by alwaysinjured

About to start getting up there again...out for 3 months with an achilles injury....happy to join up & know the route, but it will be slow for some weeks yet.

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Good to hear your out and about even if slow:D

Wynn how far in advance do you need/can you book for the BGR :confused:

There's no "booking" involved. It's just a matter of letting the BG club know that you are attempting it.

In fact you don't even need to do that if you aren't bothered about joining the club. :p

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Originally Posted by Trundler

There's no "booking" involved. It's just a matter of letting the BG club know that you are attempting it.

In fact you don't even need to do that if you aren't bothered about joining the club. :p

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hey if I'm gonna do it I want the t-shirt!! :p so who in the bg 'club' do you need to speak to? :confused: ta very muchly :D

Details here:

http://www.bobgrahamround.co.uk/register.htm

Good Luck

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Originally Posted by The Navigator

Details here:

http://www.bobgrahamround.co.uk/register.htm

Good Luck

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thanks....:D

so............to those recce's ;):cool:

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Originally Posted by wynn

Good to hear your out and about even if slow:D

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Im nearly out and about....said more in hope than expectation!

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Originally Posted by emmilou

hey if I'm gonna do it I want the t-shirt!! :p

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.... could always make your own t-shirt.... :D

You could also consider not needing a car at both ends
I checked out (clockwise) legs 1, 2, 3 in May
of course you don't have to do the whole of a leg or limit yourself to a leg

1 is easy - park in Keswick, run back down the old railway from Threlkeld
2 - park at Threlkeld, hitch back from Dunmail - for a longer day out you can of course run back down the valley.
3 - dropped off at Dunmail, ran as far as Scafell Pike and returned to Seathwaite (double egg roll in the cafe :) ) - hitched from there back to Keswick where wife and child had spent the afternoon (you could hitch out to Dunmail)

plan for the other legs would be
4 - leave car at Seathwaite run over Styhead, corridor, Scafell Pike, Scafell, Wasdale and complete leg 4 , run or hitch back down from Honister.
Or leave car at Honister and run out on Moses Trod

5 - leave car in Keswick, run out over Catbells etc.

Hitching in the Lakes is quite easy - its full of outdoor types.
though I guess they are unlikely to volunteer provide company on your run....


other possibilities.
Stonethwaite, High Raise to Scafell Pike to Stonethwaite
Steel End to Dunmail to High Raise to Steel End is a nice wee section
New Dungeon Gill, Sergeant Man to Bowfell, NDG
Dunmail, Grizedale Tarn, Fairfield, Seat Sandall Dunmail for a nice summer evening run.

I've reccied all legs solo, 3 is by far the hardest to do, 2 is just long.

Leg 1 as mentioned is easy, it's only about 3-4 miles back on the railway line from Threlkeld.

Leg 2 - I ran back parallel to the road through the woods along the permissive path, then to avoid the road through St John's in the Vale crossed the river and used the paths alongside. Really enjoyed this, was probably about 11 miles without much ascent whilst not being completely flat.

Leg 3 - I didn't enjoy this solo! A long long way back after a long recce, with loads of climb. Up past Styhead and Sprinkling Tarns, Esk Hause, Angle Tarn, Stake Pass, High Raise then pretty much the BG route in reverse to get back to Dunmail. Maybe 10 miles but seemed to take forever.

Leg 4 - Parked up at Honister, contoured round to west of Grey Knotts ridge and picked up Moses trod to Wasdale. About 4 miles I think, this one is quite easily doable in one go. It's seems a long way down from Beck Head, knowing that Yewbarrow is waiting for you.

Leg 5 - I went on the paths round the west side of Derwent Water, and got on the path that goes past Castle Crag and eventually joins the Honister path road, which you can run alongside of mostly. From Keswick around 10 miles. If doing it again, I wouldn't want that long road bit at the end, though it's worth looking at at least once before an attempt. I'd park up at the bridge near Newlands Church, go down Newlands Beck and pick up the BG route from Dale Head.

Hitching is fairly easy in the Lakes but there are also buses running between Ambleside and Keswick so you could use them.

As noted, Leg 3 is the tricky one if you wish to run the whole leg in one go. I reccied the first part (up to Esk Pike) from Dunmail but did the second part (Bowfell onwards) whilst staying at Eskdale then ran back over the Old Corpse road to get back. Another alternative would be to park at Seathwaite (borrowdale one) and hitch round to Dunmail then head back over Styhead pass to get back to the car. Has the advantage that once you get to Rossett Pike it is fairly easy to bail out if the weather turns.

Leg 4 - as has been noted, Moses Trod is useful in getting between Honister and Wasdale. I've used it both when starting at Honister and to return to Wasdale.

Leg 5 - I just did the route as an out and back from Little Town - it's easier to sort out a line through the rock steps on Robinson from below.

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Originally Posted by bestathlete

I'm keen to become familiar with the whole of the BGR route and hopefully complete the challenge in a couple of years time. I know section 1 reasonably well now, mainly because it's nearest to my house and is easy to complete without having to use two cars or bikes etc to get from end to start.

A mate of mine is also keen to learn the route but he usually works until 11am on a Sunday, which is the day I tend to go fellrunning (and I prefer to go much earlier than that.) So I'm appealing for anyone in a similar situation really - someone who would benefit from teaming up for lifts etc and who
is also looking to learn the sections.

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I'm in a roughly similar boat, but may not start recceing seriously til next year

re Legs 3 & 4 - I had a vague idea to recce it in 2 (long!) weekends by:

1)staying at the top of the Langdale valley, strolling up to the pikes while I digest my porridge, then doing an out-and-back to Dunmail one day, and an out-and-back to Scafell Pike another day

2) staying at Wasdale and doing Scafell-LordsRake-FoxesTarn-BroadStand-ScafellPike one day, and Leg
4 another day

does this sound like a good/bad idea?

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Originally Posted by DazTheSlug

I'm in a roughly similar boat, but may not start recceing seriously til next year

re Legs 3 & 4 - I had a vague idea to recce it in 2 (long!) weekends by:

1)staying at the top of the Langdale valley, strolling up to the pikes while I digest my porridge, then doing an out-and-back to Dunmail one day, and an out-and-back to Scafell Pike another day

2) staying at Wasdale and doing Scafell-LordsRake-FoxesTarn-BroadStand-ScafellPike one day, and Leg
4 another day

does this sound like a good/bad idea?

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Daz
Try going up Friday night put the tent up in Langdale and drive round to Keswick early Sat morning. Do legs 1+2+ leg 3 to Bowfell and drop back down to tent. Set off early morning and return to Bowfell to the end.
much more logical and will give you more a feel for the whole route.

Some great tips here, cheers everyone.
Im thinking of doing my first recce of Leg2 a week this Sunday if anyone cares to join me

I have been toying with the idea of going from Keswick (c/w) over two days and camping at Styhead but IanDP's idea sounds good.

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Originally Posted by Grouse

I have been toying with the idea of going from Keswick (c/w) over two days and camping at Styhead but IanDP's idea sounds good.

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When I did something similar, I found that carrying the camping stuff was a bit of a PITA given that, even split into two, it's a couple of long days out..

I've no idea of the practicalities, but I've wondered about whether it's possible to dump a bike at the end of various sections to get back to your starting point? Or possibly dumping a car at the end and then cycling to the start?

Not that I've got any intention of a BGR.....

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Originally Posted by dominion

whether it's possible to dump a bike at the end of various sections to get back to your starting point? Or possibly dumping a car at the end

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Or nick one?

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Originally Posted by Tea

Or nick one?

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Only if it's a blue PX Stealth.....

(Assuming it's assembled....)

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Originally Posted by dominion

(Assuming it's assembled....)

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Yeah, doesn't go uphill though...

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Originally Posted by dominion

I've no idea of the practicalities, but I've wondered about whether it's possible to dump a bike at the end of various sections to get back to your starting point? Or possibly dumping a car at the end and then cycling to the start?

Not that I've got any intention of a BGR.....

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you can leave a cheap bike at dunmail and do legs 1 and 2 then die as you pedal back to keswick.

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

Daz
Try going up Friday night put the tent up in Langdale and drive round to Keswick early Sat morning. Do legs 1+2+ leg 3 to Bowfell and drop back down to tent. Set off early morning and return to Bowfell to the end.
much more logical and will give you more a feel for the whole route.

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ooh that sounds good Ian!

however, I'm not fit enough yet for such an undertaking - thought I could learn the sections in more bite-sized chunks while I get used to longer days out, thus killing 2 birds with one stone

My solo recce masterplan, which I don't think has already been posted, was:

- Camp at Seatoller Farm.

- Day 1 - Via Seathwaite & Grains Gill, then head east as far as time/arsedness permit (in my case, Rossett) then hook into the leg 3 route c/w back to Wasdale. Sit in the river for a bit. Stroll casually back to Seatoller over Styhead.

- Day 2 - back over Styhead into Wasdale, which then allows for as much/little Leg 4 as desired. Anywhere from Kirk Fell onwards there are several options to exit back into Borrowdale, and if the leg is completed it is only a couple of k back to Seatoller from Honister.

One pitch only, no messing around with cars etc., and only the short stretch of tarmac from Seatoller to Seathwaite on road, the rest of it classic lakes and good running on or off route.

I should add that I was more bothered about getting in time running in the lakes generally, rather than worrying about running legs as distinct entities. To me the time I was running off BG route was well spent doing that rather than catching buses getting lifts etc.

BTW since my failed 2007 attempt I kept notes on a laptop on my training, nutrition/kit etc, which culminated in a successful (and surprisingly painless) round on 20/21 June this year. I'm not making myself out to be some sort of expert but if anyone is interested - at your own risk - please PM me and I'll email them to you.

STEVERS

Well I've got Monday to Wednesday next week free so I'm going to have a look around. Want to have a go next year - I'll be 42. Suggestions for where to stay on Monday and Tuesday night (campsite/YHA/B&B - whatever) very welcome as this is last minute planning (as usual)!

The Acorn B&B in Keswick is incredibly friendly. I don't have their number / email to hand but a google search will give that.

Am I right in thinking that the memorial plaque has been removed from Watson's Dodd. In the cloud yesterday, it really confused me that it wasn't there on the cairn as I was (almost) sure that I was in the right place ! Can anyone confirm that the plaque has gone ?!:confused: Cheers.

Having recc’ed leg two on Saturday I will attempt to pass on what I found and probably throw up more questions for you seasoned BGers to answer.

I really am a beginner and didnt even know where to set off from, so I parked in the Cricket Club carpark (as it was more or less opposite the turn off the A66 to Threlkeld). Running down the tarmac lane with the sewage works on the right i reached a small house at the end of the tarmac at which point i took to the (very wet) field on my right. After crossing the field I turned left at a gate and was running directly toward Clough Head ridge line, more or less following paralllel to the path through this field until another gate where the fence line angles sharply left I decided I should bear right and go straight up the steep tussocky ground rather than follow the path which seemed to be going around the rear of the mountain.
The summit was reached after 42 mins which I was pleased with as i was deliberately taking it easy and the BG site suggests nearly an hour if on a 24hr schedule.
I have read in the BGR ROUTE CHOICES thread that there is an even quicker route up - possibly in between the screes which are behind Threlkeld Knotts. This didnt look very easy to me but would certainly be a little more direct to the summit.

The next few summits seemd to offer little in terms of route options, but after failing to check the map properly I now realise the importance of NOT sticking rigidly to the walkers path as I nearly missed out Watsons Dodd!

Helvelyn and the two Pikes went smoothly but coming down from Dollywagon, again I was guilty of sticking to the path which was impossibly difficult to run down due to the nature of the huge, irregular man made steps. As i neared Grisedale Tarn I realised I would have preferred to run along it’s rear flank (under Seat Sandal). This would have incurred less descent and lead directly to the crossroads up to Fairfield. I have also read about an ascent of Fairfield directly from the Tarn outlet- this will be investigated on my next visit as I didnt have time to run up Fairfield on this occasion.

Fromthe summit of Seat Sandal I guessed at the direction to head to bring me to the layby at the Achille Ratti Bothy and although I got it pretty much spot on, the ground was truly awful, steep, boulder strewn and then “hidden by bracken” boulders. My time from SS summit to the main road was significantly LONGER than a sub 24hr schedule.
Surely there is a better way down Seat Sandal????

Additionally - does anybody know where I can find the website that gives you a full round time based on the consecutive peaks you have ran? I have been on it in the past but am unable to find it again despite many searches.

At 3 hrs 20 this was one of my longest runs (fell or road). I was quite knackered and can’t imagine how I could ever manage another 20 odd hours! However, I will continue to recce the route and build up my endurance with perhaps an attempt in 2010 0r 2011 (I’ll be 42 in 2011)

Looks like you had a good day out BA. A few points spring to mind. To help you with a couple of the issues you mentioned, have a look at this - this is the line I took on my round, as traced by my GPS.

- Clough Head - a more direct line between the screes is better and easier than it looks. A trod is now starting to appear.

- Grisedale Tarn - some go to the outlet and up via Cofa Pike but I would wager that most, including me, go round the 'back' of the Tarn and then up and down the west ridge of Fairfield. To go this way come off Dollywaggon using the single boundary post at the top of the main path. There is a distinctive groove in the fell which you can follow down. This is quick and direct. Most BGs go this way.

- Seat Sandal - you want to be coming out at the stile on the dual carriageway rather than the layby near the Achille Ratti hut (which, by the way is a great base for BGRs). The layby should be about 600m on your left when you pop out on thr road. Follow the lay of the land from the summit to the west top and go half right aiming for the north ridge of Steel Fell. Don't descend into the beck on the right. Follow the nose of the fell down to the right where a trod will appear turning into a good path lower down. The ground isn't wonderful in the upper reaches of SS, but if you pick a good line, the 25 mins suggested by the 23.5hr schedule should be easily met. Even in foul weather on recces and in the dark on the round itself I was well inside whilst taking it easy. I think you need to rethink your line off there.

Enjoy the prep and exploring - it's a brilliant part of the build up!

ST

PS - if you need details, don't hesitate to ask via a PM or on the forum where loads of people have got nuggets to share :)

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Originally Posted by bestathlete

The summit was reached after 42 mins which I was pleased with as i was deliberately taking it easy and the BG site suggests nearly an hour if on a 24hr schedule.

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The schedule is written assuming that you have done the whole route up to that point - I can get up Yewbarrow in around 34mins when fresh but on my round it took nearer an hour.

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I have read in the BGR ROUTE CHOICES thread that there is an even quicker route up - possibly in between the screes which are behind Threlkeld Knotts. This didnt look very easy to me but would certainly be a little more direct to the summit.

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There seems to be a path developing up Clough Head these days. Sounds like you were following it. It is only distinct in the upper half though.

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As i neared Grisedale Tarn I realised I would have preferred to run along it’s rear flank (under Seat Sandal). This would have incurred less descent and lead directly to the crossroads up to Fairfield. I have also read about an ascent of Fairfield directly from the Tarn outlet- this will be investigated on my next visit as I didnt have time to run up Fairfield on this occasion.

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Two options - either run down the grass next to the path, essentially a straight line, to the outflow of the tarn then a direct line up the slope in front of you. Or follow the old fence line off Dollywaggon (in the direction of Seat Sandal) and traverse the path round the SW side of the tarn to The Hause then up and down Fairfield that way. I prefer the latter.

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Fromthe summit of Seat Sandal I guessed at the direction to head to bring me to the layby at the Achille Ratti Bothy and although I got it pretty much spot on, the ground was truly awful, steep, boulder strewn and then “hidden by bracken” boulders. My time from SS summit to the main road was significantly LONGER than a sub 24hr schedule.
Surely there is a better way down Seat Sandal????

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As Swiss Toni has said - aim for the north end of Steel Fell and drop down to the dual carriageway section of the road at the summit of Dunmail Raise.

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Additionally - does anybody know where I can find the website that gives you a full round time based on the consecutive peaks you have ran? I have been on it in the past but am unable to find it again despite many searches.

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http://www.aqvi55.dsl.pipex.com/run/bgr_est.htm is the page you are after.

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At 3 hrs 20 this was one of my longest runs (fell or road). I was quite knackered and can’t imagine how I could ever manage another 20 odd hours! However, I will continue to recce the route and build up my endurance with perhaps an attempt in 2010 0r 2011 (I’ll be 42 in 2011)

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You will :)

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Originally Posted by bestathlete

... As i neared Grisedale Tarn I realised I would have preferred to run along it’s rear flank (under Seat Sandal). This would have incurred less descent and lead directly to the crossroads up to Fairfield. I have also read about an ascent of Fairfield directly from the Tarn outlet- this will be investigated on my next visit as I didnt have time to run up Fairfield on this occasion...

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It's also worth pointing out that by going to the right of the tarn you (and your pacers) can leave kit at the bottom as you will be retracing your steps to here exactly. No point carrying stuff up Fairfield & then straight back down again.

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Originally Posted by bestathlete

...I will continue to recce the route and build up my endurance with perhaps an attempt in 2010 0r 2011...

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man after my own heart - patience is a virtue and all that! ;)

speaking of which, finalised family holiday plans last night and managed to talk Lady Slugge into camping at Wasdale (Church Stile) next week, so hoping to sneak out for my first ever nosey at BG sections, namely Leg 4 and also Scafell/Scafell Pike (Foxes Tarn, Lord's Rake) on a couple of days between Aug.13th-17th
quite happy to do it on my own, but if anybody fancies blundering about with a complete BG novice, let me know... :)

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Originally Posted by GeoffB

It's also worth pointing out that by going to the right of the tarn you (and your pacers) can leave kit at the bottom as you will be retracing your steps to here exactly. No point carrying stuff up Fairfield & then straight back down again.

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DazH and I reccied both routes and felt that going to the right of the tarn definitely seemed better. You don't drop down so far, and the first part of the climb up Fairfield is easier. Having said that, the climb up Fairfield is still a bit of a monster.

Great replies chaps, many thanks for your input. Reading through made me want to go right back out there and run it again to try out the lines.

Ive come to realise that the training runs/recces are only a part of what is required to properly equip oneself for an attempt. I'm going to get myself a folder with a page for each summit, recording such details as - route tips and time to next summit, bearing to depart summit - description of summit cairn/trig point etc. I'll also record any other pertinant information and keep a log of BG route training runs/recces.

Is this the kind of thing some of you do/have done? Currently, all that I have learned is either in my head or I refer back to these threads. Can't carry on this way though, after all, ive only done legs 1 and 2 so far.

I recorded the route on Memory map. In the days leading up to my atempt - after lots of recceing - I could imagine the whole route in my head. I would go over it lots of times to be sure of it. Whatever you can come up with to jog your memory of the route will only go to improve your confidence.
Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Alan Lucker

I recorded the route on Memory map. In the days leading up to my atempt - after lots of recceing - I could imagine the whole route in my head. I would go over it lots of times to be sure of it. Whatever you can come up with to jog your memory of the route will only go to improve your confidence.
Have fun.

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I did just the same thing (but using Anquet and Tracklogs). I'm happy to share my planned and actual tracks - PM me.

Most of what you are wanting to do can be found at http://www.aqvi55.dsl.pipex.com/run/bob_graham.htm , detailed notes, including bearings, are at http://www.aqvi55.dsl.pipex.com/run/bgr_notes.htm and if you have Memory Map then you can download a trace file from a link on that page. Summit descriptions at http://www.aqvi55.dsl.pipex.com/run/bgr_tops.htm

I've also got photos of some of the summits and various route choices on my machine at home.

Any errors, proposals for extra info, just drop me a PM.

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The Acorn B&B in Keswick is incredibly friendly. I don't have their number / email to hand but a google search will give that.

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Thanks for the reply PB but I'd already set off - I'll try them next time.

Just got back from a 5 day break - 1 leg per day....
...well, that was the idea...
:eek: What a shock to the system! That's the first time I've run in the Lake District! Tuesday, leg 1, fantastic day out - Skiddaw nearly killed me - not done much training recently and legs got punished for it! Great weather until Blencathra (the only place I saw any runners all week!) - bit nervewracking coming off there in the clag.
Wednesday, leg 2, didn't happen:( - legs aching from Tuesday and I didn't fancy doing it all by compass.
Thursday, leg 3, didn't happen - just did Seatoller to Wasdale over Styhead Pass as I'd been warned not to try that section on my own in bad weather.
Friday - beautiful day and I now resemble a lobster as a result. Opted not to do leg 4 as I wanted to go up Scafell Pike. Glad I did - fantastic views all round.:D Checked out a few of the peaks then over Glaramara to Rosthwaite for a pint or three.
Saturday - cancelled as I had to go and pick the kids up.

So, all in all, having experienced running in the lakeland fells for the first time:
1, I have GOT to return!!! It's just TOO good! The hills are far too hard!:D
2, Thoughts of doing the BG next year might have to be put back a year!

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Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Thanks for the reply PB but I'd already set off - I'll try them next time.

Just got back from a 5 day break - 1 leg per day....
...well, that was the idea...
What a shock to the system! That's the first time I've run in the Lake District! Tuesday, leg 1, fantastic day out - Skiddaw nearly killed me - not done much training recently and legs got punished for it! Great weather until Blencathra (the only place I saw any runners all week!) - bit nervewracking coming off there in the clag.
Wednesday, leg 2, didn't happen:( - legs aching from Tuesday and I didn't fancy doing it all by compass.
Thursday, leg 3, didn't happen - just did Seatoller to Wasdale over Styhead Pass as I'd been warned not to try that section on my own in bad weather.
Friday - beautiful day and I now resemble a lobster as a result. Opted not to do leg 4 as I wanted to go up Scafell Pike. Glad I did - fantastic views all round.:D Checked out a few of the peaks then over Glaramara to Rosthwaite for a pint or three.
Saturday - cancelled as I had to go and pick the kids up.

So, all in all, having experienced running in the lakeland fells for the first time:
1, I have GOT to return!!! It's just TOO good! The hills are far too hard!
2, Thoughts of doing the BG next year might have to be put back a year!

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Sounds like you enjoyed yourself Pilgrim;) Gets you like that, the Lake District. Keep getting up them hills, just training for a BG is a great way to spend your time even if you never attempt one. Keep plodding on and enjoy it and you'll get there:)