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So what considerations do people have when choosing the BG clockwise or anti-clockwise?
Seems like up to 2000 there was a 49:51 split clockwise to anti-clockwise then 2001-2007 was 81:19. So why the change?
People who have done it, what was your considerations in choosing the way you have gone?
Do you recce both ways then decide which way you prefer or do you just decide one way and stick to it?
Purely curious you understand. Not planning at all....honest;)
2009 or 2010 Ant??!! :rolleyes:;)
2010 is miles away:eek:
If I was to do it then it would be on the weekend of the first full moon of June 2009 (Sunday) which happens to co-incide with my birthday on Friday 5th.
But just curious you understand
I went clockwise - because:
- the 3 biggest climbs in that direction (Skiddaw, Clough Head, Yewbarrow - see BGclimbs) are out of the way by the time you're 2/3 of the way round
- I was happier doing the road section at the end, on the basis that I could stagger along it however knackered I was
- I liked doing a big climb at the start to make sure I set off slowly right from the start
- that was the way I was used to on the supports I'd done for other people
But surely if you go anti-clockwise then the climbs are different? e.g Clough head would not be as big a climb as you are going the other way meaning roughly 100m climb? but Wasdale to Scafell would be up there as the biggie?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillJ
Fair point re: the road at the end although I can see dropping down from Skiddaw with Keswick in the distance quite a cool notion? I could also see the road section as a nice warm up before a big hill kills me?
Oh the choices
Yes. Anti-clockwise the biggest climbs will be different, but what I was trying to say was that the biggest climbs anti-clockwise are not in the first 2/3 (because of Blencathra and Skiddaw.)Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF
Going clockwise, its a relatively gentle run-in from Great Gable. ;) :D
Yep, both good reasons to go anti-clockwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF
Doesn't matter - just dedicate yourself to doing it and go for it. :)
Yes, see what you are saying re: the hills and I guess once you hit Honister you just need to hang on in there. But if going the other way you may get the tougher Honister to Dunmail done first but it isn't the easiest route in from there.
Suppose it makes recce's easier if you do a leg then do it again in reverse.
Really curious why the change in focus from an even split to a huge weight towards clockwise.
I went that way because Bob Graham went that way. I'm not suggesting for a second it's any more valid that way because it isn't, but that sort of felt right to me.
SOme ppl go the other way because it better enables a morning start which suits the body clock for many, but the whole thing is 66 miles with 29,000' of climbing or whatever either way so it's all swings and roundabouts really.
ST
Where would you rather be with 5 hours to go after 18 hours out on your feet?
Great Gable with a gentle trundle down to honister and an easy last section, or Threlkeld in the dark with those three bloody big climbs and the biggest single descent on the round to come?
Clockwise, without a doubt!
That's one of the main reasons I chose CW. Don't think I even realised you could go round the other way when I first started looking at the route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Toni
It's also the way the previous BGers in my club had gone round, so I had them and some of their support crew with me and they only knew the lines CW. Once one way has become popular, it becomes easier to do the same as the better lines become more well known.
CW for me also, get three big climbs out of the way early. Although not big, the climb up Great Calva though that deeeeep heather going acw with tired legs would be awful.
Also if you were behind scedule you could can go quite hard and really pick up the pace. I can't see doing that up the last three going the otherway.
I can only comment on an anti-clockwise round but the last three climbs passed ok for me.....I'd recce'd that section so many times I'd actually grown to like it.
The dark was not an issue. Hall's Fell is just like scrambling so you'll never do it quickly and I'd rather be going up it steadily than trying to descend at speed. The run down to the Caldew is downhill; there is a fence to drag yourself up Great Calva on plus it's only a smallish top; a nice run off down to the bottom and then it's just one foot in front of the other 'til you arrive at the fence near the summit plateau of Skiddaw which is made easier as it's your last top.
The fact that it's then all downhill to Keswick (and that I was in the company of the best support team going) made that last descent fantastic...even though my knees were shot.
I don't like running on the road and I don't think I'd have coped well on a 5 mile road section to end with. :)
There is no deep heather on the climb up Calva on the AC round if you follow the stream in a NW direction to 300309 and then head up the fence. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
Agreed, Tim. I followed that fence down in my CW round. Definitely better than the heather.Quote:
Originally Posted by goose fat
Even less heather if you head back down the S ridge a bit then make a beeline for the summit of Mungrisedale Common. This also has the advantage of a safe, if exciting, way across the Caldew if it is in spate - simply head upstream for about 150m and you'll come to where the fence crosses. Get out your Fedora and Bull whip out and be Indiana Jones for a while :p
There's also that line mentioned in another thread that goes past Skiddaw House - no heather at all on that one - can't comment on it though as I've not done it.
As far as long descents go, I found the descent from Sca Fell to Wasdale to be the worst part of my clockwise round - partly because of knowing there were another 9 hours to come from that point on.
I imagine that the Skiddaw descent at the end of an anti-clockwise round would be "easier" psychologically as it finishes at the finish, while I'm pretty familiar with the climbs towards the end and would find them easier.
I'm toying with the idea of an anti-clockwise round next year (injuries permitting), so if I manage to get round I'll be able to compare the two more accurately.
I think you're right about Hall's Fell - fine going anticlockwise. Doddick Fell is better for the clockwise round as it's so much more runnable.Quote:
Originally Posted by goose fat
I didn't ever really consider an anticlockwise round as I was adopted by the well oiled Pennine clockwise BG machine, and I suppose I also thought that if the majority go clockwise, who am I to say that anticlockwise is better?
I'd been told that on a clockwise round, if you can get to the top of Great Gable more or less on time, you're home and dry because it isn't too big a drop to Honister, and Clough Head isn't a hard climb. For me, Gable was 4 hours and 10 minutes (our schedule says 4 hours 29 mins), 13.4 miles and 2750ft climb before I finished. Compare that with Threlkeld to Keswick of 13.3 miles and 5000ft climb. I know which I'd rather do on tired legs.
So inagine this........12 hours into your round. You are stood on Bowfell cold, wet hungry and tired.
Would you prefer to be looking at Scafell or Helvellyn?
I understand that clockwise has the easiest last section but anti-clockwise means that it is an easier second half.
11:40am on Bowfell after a midnight start, six minutes up on schedule, rain, poor visibility, wet and slippery under foot. I was quite happy to be heading in the direction of Scafell Pike, but couldn't see a thing!Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF
It's not easy when you put it like that! CW you are just about to start the rockiest stretch, which I don't enjoy when wet and slippery. But you're already at over 900m, there isn't much descent between you and the highest pair of mountains in the country. You have still have Yewbarrow ahead, but at least you get a rest beforehand, and the remaining big mountains, Pillar, Kirk Fell and Great Gable aren't that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF
ACW you have a lot of bog ahead of you and still some of the highest mountains and biggest climbs. Fairfield, Dollywaggon to get onto the Helvellyn ridge, Blencathra and Skiddaw.
My knees were in trouble on the Sca Fell descent, I was painfully slow at descending by the time I was coming off Grey Knotts. I don't know if I'd have ever made it down from Skiddaw if going the other way!
Neither way is going to make it easy, but I'd rather have Scafell ahead, on the offchance it was actually visible.
I'm not sure about the direct 'heather' route off Calva now - Marcus made a lot of time up on Jonathon, who was going strongly and on his 21 hr schedule - (Jonathon came down the fence and Marcus down the heather).
I think you mean Dale Head. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Clough head is a hardish climb (cw of course).
Clockwise made the most sense to me, and still does now.
The fence route up ACW Down CW off G Calva is the way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouse
Indeed he did get well ahead after being behind at GC but I believe that was in part due to Jonathon heading a little too far downstream before crossing the Caldew. Bobert crosses further upstream. I am keen to check out the heather route again though, as I clocked the descent from GC summit to the bottom of the fence at only 15min/mile pace last week with Jonathan. Bearing in mind he did 3:30 including an awful, dark descent of Halls Fell ridge then surely the heather route must be better.
Regarding AC or CW well i dont really know enough about the later sections to make any valid comment but as all my recces and help to attempts so far have been CW then that is probably the way i would opt to do it. As i get used to longer and longer runs though, i intend to run sections in full then in reverse to familiarise myself with every aspect of the ground.
I think the best route between Gt Calva and Blencathra passes just S of the sheepfold and crosses the river at about NY297299. From there the climb is on good ground with short grass. Follow a line just N of the Mungrisdale common cairn.
My preferred descent from Blencathra follows a steep drop that crosses Middle Tongue and follows the W stream to Gate Gill. It is very runnable and quicker than Hall's Fell. WARNING: There is an optimum line. If you get it wrong, you could be in serious trouble.
Yiannis
Hi AnthonyQuote:
Originally Posted by AJF
I'll let you know next weekend. I've thought that once i'm on Bowfell on a clockwise round, there's only Yewbarrow left. ;)
Iain
...and Great Gable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobert
Yiannis
A few of us had a "race" down this descent and Doddick fell.Quote:
Originally Posted by ydt
The Middle Tongue/Gate gill descenders had to wait about ten minutes at the bottom before the others turned up, they gave the lame excuse they had got "lost" I'm not so sure ;)
One of the Middle Tongue descenders did comment on the drops where you could injure yourself but I thought they added to the excitement.
You will have that lemming feeling the first time you drop of the summit mind :D
Thats the spirit :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobert
Good luck
Not lost honest. Just decided to visit Scales farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggins
Doddick - if we had made the right hand turn onto it would be the fastest way down - especially so if it is still dark. The other 2 decents are just too technical. But I get the feeling you will be leading the group down Middle tongue Mr Baggins. ;)
After all your the boss. You can do the same from Kirkfell on as well :D
But of course I do:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan Lucker
Sounds like too much excitement for an acrophobe like me. I'm sticking with Doddick for my next round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggins
...but it is on grass although extremely steep. Good studs absolutely necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggins
Yiannis
:eek::eek::eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
I'll be doing as I'm told by then :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Lucker
Like others have said I'd rather be at Honister than Threlkeld in the final stages as its an easier run in, not keen on the mud and heather back of Skiddaw when I'm fresh never mind being out all day :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF
Plus once I'm dropping into Wasdale I'm on home ground so doing it clockwise means I'm running towards home rather than away :D
Would you like to join me?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
:eek::eek::eek::eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
I suppose it would be good to go round anticlockwise for a change.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak
The forum won't allow nore than four smilies in one post will it?
I would love to have gone anticlockwise as basically I am lazy and I would have liked to set off fresh at 0700 after a good night's sleep. I think that I would have made faster and easier progress in this direction early on allowing me to save a bit for the hard climbs at the end.
I am a much better climber than descender so going up at the end of the round would not phase me.
The reason I chose to go clockwise was because I was on my own and a bit afraid of the dark. I wanted to get it out of the way as soon as possible and leaving at 0100 meant I didnt even have one whole section in the dark.
I hoped that if I finished a bit under 24 hours then most of the second period of darkness would be on the road (and not a problem).
Finishing on the road is a bit of a trudge but not too bad (CW) but I would not have liked descending Skiddaw at the very end (ACW) even though I would have been encouraged by the end being in sight.
I guess it depends on your own preference and circumstance as both directions have their merits.
wightplodder.blogspot.com
Well I'd not really considered anti-clockwise until now, despite two very well respected completers saying it was the way to go.
But.....
I'd say it depends on what your strengths are. Personally, I find descending technical rocky ground the most difficult, particularly when your legs have "gone".
For that reason, I'm now starting to think that getting "Leg 4" (which would be Leg 2 anti) and Leg 3 out the way sooner rather than later would be far more preferable. Two mainly grassy legs to follow, certainly on the downhills. I can really see the benefit of that.