Asthma

Well the Pleurisy seems to be clearing up but as per the other thread I have been struggling to breath. I was given a blue inhaler two weeks ago (which I thought it wasn't do anything), today I've been to see the asthma nurse for some tests, which involved blowing into a machine slowly and then as hard and fast as I can, doing this once and then again after taking the inhaler. I was pretty shocked at seeing the results without the inhaler, it showed without the inhaler on the long slow breath out that I had a lung capacity 105% for someone my age, but the problem came when I had to do a short fast breath out, emptying my lungs, this showed that my lungs were equivalent to a 75 year old, not good when I'm 35! I then had to do the tests again after using the inhaler (which I thought was doing nothing), my lung capacity when up by a further 10% and the short fast breath out improved, but still not to a standard of an average person.

The nurse then talked about two options, trying a steroid inhaler or going to see a chest specialist to try and work out what is causing the problem.

I know there has been a lot written on the forum about asthma, but does the blue inhaler normally solve the breathing? How many of you take the steroid inhaler? Should I be trying to stay clear of this and push for the chest specialist?

Half of me still doesn't think that it is asthma, but as the nurse pointed out that if it wasn't asthma then the inhaler wouldn't have made a difference on the tests.

I'll start with a Forum Disclaimer:- I'm just posting this as a bit of feedback, and it should, in no way, be taken as "advice/guidance/gospel/litigious". Fankoo.

I did the spirometry tests (?10 years ago, whilst a student and also competing at a national level). I was also crap at the fast blowing out one..........several theories as to why, but I'm not aware of any impact on my general health or athletic performance.
To my knowlege, I've never had any asthma type symptoms either, so may well not be comparable to you, Hopey.
I did feel a bit of a duffer at the time, but our tutor did explain that, as with all tests, it is not a functional measurement......when in your daily life are you required to blow through a tube at speed? How much practice might you neeed to get really good at it??
Did you have nurse related performance anxiety???????
Perhaps a series of results would be more revalatory...a one off measure may not be as useful as a longer-term trend?! Especially after your recent pleurisy.
Have Hope(y).

Thanks Chugger, I was thinking similar about the tests, that's one of the reasons that I was pushing for the chest specialist who would do further tests.

The one thing is that after the inhaler the tests results where better, but my breathing still didn't feel anything like 100%, so I hope they not going to fob me off with this small improvement that the inhaler does.

I've no doubt that pleurisy will have an impact on how you're feeling, Hopey....it isn't a normal cough/cold type scenario.

I'd be interested in asking the questions of those who have interest/experience...perhaps a specialist opinion would provide an opportunity to do this??

The steroid will help if there is an inflammatory process still going on, and I'm sure that there's some good info. out there from reputable patient/NHS support groups!
Happy hunting.

Adrian,

I'll mail you from work.....I'm on a 2nd bout of steroid tablets, have a blue, brown and now purple inhaler, (the purple one is both the reliver and preventer in one and a steriod based one) and another strange tablet to take at night. :eek:

I'm waiting the appointment for the chest specialist and have been pretty ill with it all.

Chin up - they'll sort it.

I'll send you some more info....

Don't forget the UKA drug screening and management rules on notification of inhaler use if your racing under their regulations!

I'm on Clenil (Brown one) and good 'ol Ventolin from the docs after being diagnosed with asthma earlier this year. I have recently done a bit of reading on the nutritional aspect of asthma treatment and have started taking daily doses of:
Cod liver oil Capsule (anti-inflammatory)
Muti-vit with lycopene (Asthmatics shown to be low in vit c and lycopene beneficial in EIA)
Magnesium Supplement (patients with asthma who reported a high dietary intake of magnesium had better lung function and a reduction in the relative risk of wheezing)
Garlic Capsule (anti-inflammatory)
It appears to be working as my running is improving since the diagnosis but I can't say whether it's scientific but I know it appears to be working for me.

Do you mind me asking what you do for a living? Could you have developed asthma through exposure at work? Not always asked about by GPs / Nurses but can make a big difference to how you treat / manage it.

Richard

Adrian,

http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?t=456

This is a really good thread, someone else started but I started to get problems with my Asthma shortley after this thread and started posting more regular.

If you can decifer through all my panic posts thinking I had some chronic lung disease, thinking it was my house, thinking it was my diet, thinking it was my work, thinking it was the plaster on my wall, thinking it was the weather or thinknig I was totally stressed out there is some really good stuff in response to my posts.

Get a peak flow meter and check your levels morning, before a run and after a run. Im not sure what type of breathing difficulties your having but my breathing was cutting out dead on twenty minutes into a run. It was about this time of year so it could be the weather. in fact dont rule out any of the things I Mentioned above.

I think my normal peak flows where about 460-480 (pretty shit, still are)and within twenty minutes of running they dropped to 230. Which I was told was bad, very dangerous should have gone to casualty.

Im sure your asthma nurse will help get you sorted, I drew up some graphs in excel of my peak flows to show my asthma nurse but you dont need to go to those extremes, she was sexy though so I thought it appropriate, she was well impressed no one had done that for her before.

Like Emmi Im on the purple steriod inhalers but still take the blue ventolin bofore running.

Dont worry to much about drug testing in races I dont think you and I fall into that category.

I have tried emailing you at work, you on holiday or just ignoring?

Hope this helps, I have been known to talk bol*oc*s

Cheers
Jamie

Reminds me I need a flu jab, hope she still works therehttp://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/images/icons/icon6.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NotOnUrHelly

Adrian,


I have tried emailing you at work, you on holiday or just ignoring?

---

No the chuffing email isn't working, been trying to get hold of my hubbie all day... it bounces right back!

I'm also on the singulair - montelukast tablets every night now :(

the whole thing is a bloody mind field and frankly I'm sick of it. Track session was really tough tonight, the air was damp and cold apart from having to run round in circles but the elephant ont he chest syndrome appeared again :(

are you still on the serotide (purple) inhaler Jamie?? are you using the blue one less now though as a consequence?

Emmi,

Those montelokaust messed my head up, bad vivid nightmares, cold sweats and stuff its all in the post from 2 years ago.

How you doing with them?? careful Careful, they did sort my breathing out though, peak flows shot up 25%

I think preds was the next stage for me, have you had them.

I think Oct - March is not great for Asthmatics anyway.

Im still on the purple, sort of feel dependent on it now. Feel wheezy if I dont take it which worries mehttp://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/images/icons/icon8.gif its like I need it now, which i did not before.

Still using blue, but can get get through a run wihtout it. Just feel less groggy if I take it.

Cheers
Jamie

:eek: eek Jamie, that's not a promising thought is it.

Not sure how I feel on them to be honest. It's still early days on the singulair stuff and I have been having funny dreams but that's not unusual although M says I've started talking in my sleep :eek:

Yesterday I could just about start breathing again after a couple of months of feeling really ill. I was talking to a girl at track last night and she is on the same combo of drugs and swears by them?? Although the track session didn't go too well as it was a cold damp night.

I'm a bit like you now J, becomming dependant on the purple one although am hoping come spring the dose will be reduced perhaps and maybe I can go back to the brown one for the summer months??

Keep your eye on those Singulair pal.

I should downgrade to the Brown, I meant to do that over summer but never got round to it.

I may see about that when I get my flu jab

Cheers
Jamie

The colour of the inhaler is nothing to do with strength its just what the active ingredient is. The only reason you get started on a brown inhaler is that it costs about 60p per inhaler as opposed to nearly 40 for a purple one. Its all about cost effectiveness. You thing the NHS is selling something for 7 pound that costs 60p its a no brainer for the GP. With the inhalers it is in a sense a reliance but its important that your asthma is well controlled. If seretide works keep using it don't bother chopping and changing likewise if you feel something doesn't work say so so you can be on the right medication.

Uncontrolled Asthma is a problem not for the obvious discomfort etc but for the long term damage that it can do. It is well documented that poorly controlled asthma can lead to irreversable changes to the lungs. Hence why with myself I only have very mild exercise induced asthma but I'm religious about taking my inhaler as trust me you don't want what half my patients have alright most of there problems have been caused by working int mill and down t'pit and smoking 20 a day. At the end of the day if your medications work use em and I wouldn't change if it is working.


That probably sounds a bit of a rant but I see people with chronic lung conditions everyday and the importance of doing things right are immense. I'm no preacher but the majority of runners do the right thing for there chest by exercising, in general not smoking . For healthy lungs and hearts you need, exercise, no smoking and CORRECT use of Medications. If you do those things your body has a better chance in the long run not withstanding other medical problems that is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detritus21

The colour of the inhaler is nothing to do with strength its just what the active ingredient is. The only reason you get started on a brown inhaler is that it costs about 60p per inhaler as opposed to nearly 40 for a purple one. Its all about cost effectiveness. You thing the NHS is selling something for 7 pound that costs 60p its a no brainer for the GP. With the inhalers it is in a sense a reliance but its important that your asthma is well controlled. If seretide works keep using it don't bother chopping and changing likewise if you feel something doesn't work say so so you can be on the right medication.

Uncontrolled Asthma is a problem not for the obvious discomfort etc but for the long term damage that it can do. It is well documented that poorly controlled asthma can lead to irreversable changes to the lungs. Hence why with myself I only have very mild exercise induced asthma but I'm religious about taking my inhaler as trust me you don't want what half my patients have alright most of there problems have been caused by working int mill and down t'pit and smoking 20 a day. At the end of the day if your medications work use em and I wouldn't change if it is working.


That probably sounds a bit of a rant but I see people with chronic lung conditions everyday and the importance of doing things right are immense. I'm no preacher but the majority of runners do the right thing for there chest by exercising, in general not smoking . For healthy lungs and hearts you need, exercise, no smoking and CORRECT use of Medications. If you do those things your body has a better chance in the long run not withstanding other medical problems that is.

---

Some interesting points there.

Am I going to do any damage to my lungs by running while my asthma is not under control?

You would have to be having long term uncontrolled asthma for it to make a difference where you end up in a chronic cycle of inflamatory changes which causes damage. Short term changes are generally reversible. Provided you are Taking your blue inhaler pre run then it should be controlling it to some extent anyway so I wouldn't be too concerned. But ideally you want to keep an overall check on it so ideally I'd push for seeing a specialist as although GP's are good a specialist is in general better and should investigate further. If you have a peak flow meter keep a check on your pre and post run figures a bit of a drop is nothing to be over concerned about. In an ideal world they should remain stable and increase a little. By having pre and post readings it gives you an idea how well the medication is working and this comes into play when you are on steroid inhalers.

With your blue inhalers if its an aerosol one make sure you shake it adequately and from experience, with whatever blue inhaler, I'd say try having it 10 minutes or so before you run not immediately before you start. That way you ensure that your airways are going to be fully open. Other good things to do none inhaler related are before you do a hard run/session ensure you have a good progressive warm up that wawy your body is prepared for the demands that you'll place on it.

The other thing is the pleurisy you've had may have caused some inflammation in the airways which will act like asthma by narrowing the airways. As the Pleurisy fully resolves you may find that actually its not asthma after all. Ideally what you want is to be doing the spirometry tests again in another 2-3 weeks time and see what the change is.

I've now been told I don't have asthma, they don't know what is causing the problems. :confused:

I'm having to go and see a chest specialist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hopey

I've now been told I don't have asthma, they don't know what is causing the problems. :confused:

I'm having to go and see a chest specialist.

---

see you there!!! :D

This is a really interesting and helpful thread. Particular thanks to detritus21 for the expert bits. I hope the various Emmilous and Hopeys are sorted out and feeling better by now/very soon.

For my tuppenth worth (and this is just experience, not medical advice etc)... bit of back ground..I've had asthma fo 15 years. At times I've been properly out of action (in bed/stuck in house) for days to weeks and not able to do any exercise (bedroom-bound exercise included!) for ages. I didn't run between October and March for several years as it sent my lungs loopy. I've been on purple (magic but they wont' give it to me again for cost reasons I guess), brown and blue inhalers (I'm not going to try and spell the chemicals) at various points. I've now found (tempting fate here...) a way of managing it and haven't been ill for a while. I now have a peak flow of 580 which I believe is reasonably good. I can't comment on the pleurisy side of things though. Thought I just say how I've been able to manage my asthma but I do appreciate it's all different.

I'm prescribed the blue still and carry it religiously (I have four in various places and never leave the house without one) especially when running. When it's very cold/damp I normally take a puff 5 minutes before running but haven't had to do this for a while now. I've been able to run for the past two winter seasons including pre-sunrise sessions: I cover my mouth and nose with a buff when I set off so that I don't lose too much moisture to the drier cold air when breathing; keep my chest warm even if everything else is cold (pertex has changed my life!); I don't stop/change my breathing pattern as this causes me breathing problems; I stand in the coldest room in the house before I leave and when I get back so that I minimise temp changes; wear a buff around my neck (dunno why that helps!). All that has made every difference to me. I'm also prescribed the brown puffer but only take it when I sense a codl coming on/am going camping at the weekend/prior to doing other stuff I know might bring on a lengthy episode. The nurse seems happy with me dealing with it that way as I hate taking it continuously. If I need the blue I *always* take it immediately - the long term damage isn't worth braving it out now.

sorry if that's a bit lengthy and tedious, I just wanted to tell you that there is hope and not to get too down about it guys - I've come out the other side! :)
but like I said, I've not had pleurisy recently...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Persephone

This is a really interesting and helpful thread. Particular thanks to detritus21 for the expert bits. I hope the various Emmilous and Hopeys are sorted out and feeling better by now/very soon.

For my tuppenth worth (and this is just experience, not medical advice etc)... bit of back ground..I've had asthma fo 15 years. At times I've been properly out of action (in bed/stuck in house) for days to weeks and not able to do any exercise (bedroom-bound exercise included!) for ages. I didn't run between October and March for several years as it sent my lungs loopy. I've been on purple (magic but they wont' give it to me again for cost reasons I guess), brown and blue inhalers (I'm not going to try and spell the chemicals) at various points. I've now found (tempting fate here...) a way of managing it and haven't been ill for a while. I now have a peak flow of 580 which I believe is reasonably good. I can't comment on the pleurisy side of things though. Thought I just say how I've been able to manage my asthma but I do appreciate it's all different.

I'm prescribed the blue still and carry it religiously (I have four in various places and never leave the house without one) especially when running. When it's very cold/damp I normally take a puff 5 minutes before running but haven't had to do this for a while now. I've been able to run for the past two winter seasons including pre-sunrise sessions: I cover my mouth and nose with a buff when I set off so that I don't lose too much moisture to the drier cold air when breathing; keep my chest warm even if everything else is cold (pertex has changed my life!); I don't stop/change my breathing pattern as this causes me breathing problems; I stand in the coldest room in the house before I leave and when I get back so that I minimise temp changes; wear a buff around my neck (dunno why that helps!). All that has made every difference to me. I'm also prescribed the brown puffer but only take it when I sense a codl coming on/am going camping at the weekend/prior to doing other stuff I know might bring on a lengthy episode. The nurse seems happy with me dealing with it that way as I hate taking it continuously. If I need the blue I *always* take it immediately - the long term damage isn't worth braving it out now.

sorry if that's a bit lengthy and tedious, I just wanted to tell you that there is hope and not to get too down about it guys - I've come out the other side! :)
but like I said, I've not had pleurisy recently...

---

Hello and welcome to the forum...

Can i please ask what you mean by a buff? the reason i am asking is because i am a beginner to running, and last christmas i had pnuemonia, and this year i have a few attacks of pleurisy, and at present i am getting over tonisilitus/cough etc, and i went to the doctors today, for two things, one being my breathing is shocking, so i was given a breathing tube, i have to monitor my puff in it, upto now it can get between 200 and 260 i was told to do the chart for 2 weeks, if its up and down then i will need to go see the Asthma nurse, but at present also i am buying clothes so i can go running, so if a buff is something i need to buy, and will help my breathing be less harsh, its worth asking! and thank you for adding your feedback. H

http://www.buffwear.co.uk/

Hello, thanks.
They're not technical gear, don't worry, they are stretchy headband type things (don't be put off by the odd ways that they suggest you wear them!) that can work just like hair bands do. If that makes sense. I wear one around my neck to keep my throat warm and sometimes over my mouth and one to keep my ears warm. they don't have to come in silly patterns either! I also wear mine under my climbing helmet and when my hair's looking pants when camping and.. the list is endless...
Not really a necessity but I don't know what I'd do without mine :)

cold air is drier so as you breathe you lose moisture. I'm told that asthma can be related to dehydration so if you cover your mouth/nose when breathing it catches some of the moisture and you can breath it in again. Or so runnersworld in Canada told me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Persephone

http://www.buffwear.co.uk/

Hello, thanks.
They're not technical gear, don't worry, they are stretchy headband type things (don't be put off by the odd ways that they suggest you wear them!) that can work just like hair bands do. If that makes sense. I wear one around my neck to keep my throat warm and sometimes over my mouth and one to keep my ears warm. they don't have to come in silly patterns either! I also wear mine under my climbing helmet and when my hair's looking pants when camping and.. the list is endless...
Not really a necessity but I don't know what I'd do without mine :)

cold air is drier so as you breathe you lose moisture. I'm told that asthma can be related to dehydration so if you cover your mouth/nose when breathing it catches some of the moisture and you can breath it in again. Or so runnersworld in Canada told me!

---

Makes sense that, thank you! they look pretty wicked too! i might go for the patterned one! i like something different...

Just watched one of those vids on the Buff, LOVE IT!!! i will have to make sure i pick a cute one!

Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NirvanaBliss

Hello and welcome to the forum...

Can i please ask what you mean by a buff? the reason i am asking is because i am a beginner to running, and last christmas i had pnuemonia, and this year i have a few attacks of pleurisy, and at present i am getting over tonisilitus/cough etc, and i went to the doctors today, for two things, one being my breathing is shocking, so i was given a breathing tube, i have to monitor my puff in it, upto now it can get between 200 and 260 i was told to do the chart for 2 weeks, if its up and down then i will need to go see the Asthma nurse, but at present also i am buying clothes so i can go running, so if a buff is something i need to buy, and will help my breathing be less harsh, its worth asking! and thank you for adding your feedback. H

---

A Buff is a cylindrical piece of material that can be shaped for different purposes, from sheilding your mouth, wearing on your head, or around your neck. They come in lots of differing designs (mines a Taz one) Usually can be found in the majority of outdoor shops or definately in Winfields up in Haslingden.
http://www.buffwear.co.uk/ is the main online shop for them, but they can be picked up most outdoorsy places.

Thanks Vince, ordering 2 today...

I in the end only ordered 1

I didnt know about a link between Asthma and dehydration at all, but then I don't read up on these things very much despite having had asthma for many years. Any more info on it?

My nurse mentioned it but I don't know much else. A couple of academic research links if you are able to access them:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...6/990607071643

.htmhttp://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier= ADA417071

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...106s1/art00002

ta - will have a look at it & report back if anything to share

I've just been given a peak flow metre, what sort of readings are people getting on this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hopey

I've just been given a peak flow metre, what sort of readings are people getting on this?

---

depends...... Have you any other meds to take etc?? Before my ongoing rounds of doctor visiting and tablet taking it was only a measly 300!

I'm on the singulair tabs daily and the combined steroid inhaler and now it's up to 500 on average....still strugglung with the weather as it's the cold icy winds making it worse on a run

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hopey

I've just been given a peak flow metre, what sort of readings are people getting on this?

---

Have been down at 300 ish, now stable at 580. Drops to 400 on a bad day after a cold and damp run though.

Don't panic if you're low at the moment, it will improve. Will generally be lower in the morning too. Fill out the graph thing that they've probably given you so you can keep an eye on it.

Long-term, probably when you're through your illness, I'm told the Alexander Technique can help but I don't know anything about it.

IM hovering around 420 this time of year, at best I'm only good for 500's.

When my Asthma was bad two years ago I was dropping down to 220 in full on attack mode.

Emmi - Have you had no side effect from the Singulair tablets, may give them a go again.

Cheers
Jamie

After seeing the specialist they no longer think that it is asthma that I've been suffering with. They still have no idea what it is.

I'm going back for lung tests next week.

Mine usually hovers about 640 thanks to seretide but it dives something awful when running in the cold - usually down to the 400's somewhere. Good idea re the buff - might give that go - not used my natty Ben Nevis one yet!

Hi Deeko, i would recommend the buff, i got mine last week, its become abit of a comfort blanket, ie, i wore it on Thursday, and it did help my breathing.

My readings are not good then, towards all of you, but maybe cos you are all fitter than i am, as i am getting 200, 250, and if at a push it goes to 290 its forced.

Buffs i have seen sell for £8 online too. Although mine i got from the actual buff site was with pp £15. And i ordered pink and it came as red, so not sure i was pleased with it at first, but now i kind of look like the kid on the aviator.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deeko

Mine usually hovers about 640 thanks to seretide but it dives something awful when running in the cold - usually down to the 400's somewhere. Good idea re the buff - might give that go - not used my natty Ben Nevis one yet!

---

640 :eek:

did mine again this morning - back down to 400....chuffing cold weather roll on spring/summer when I can breathe in pollen instead :rolleyes:

Hi NirvanaBliss & Emmilou,

Everybody's different really - bear in mind 640's pretty much spot on my target PF. My asthma's well controlled now but I had a bad few periods (including a stay in hospital with pneumonia in May 2007!) before it really stabilised. Hope you guys get it sorted!

I'll give the buff a bash tomorrow on my 14 miler - mind you it's not that cold up here at the moment though. It was 7 degrees today when I a was out watching the XC in Holyrood Park. Quite sultry after the last week or so! :D

I had my first semi bad uncontrolled atack on the running machine last night in the gym. PF's are not good at the minute about 430 after the attack they where down to 320.

Nirvana, is your PF 220 when your are struggling to breath during an attack or just normal. A lot depends on Age, Sex and Height, womens are generally lower than blokes.

A lot can be said about this cold weather I notice big drops, a more attacks.

Hello Deeko

Mine today was 290, when i am having a bad do, it goes between 200 and 220, so today is a good day.

I have yet been given a blower, so i shall make an appointment with the asthma nurse, now i am beginning to run.

Last christmas i had pneumonia, and this christmas i had flu and septic tonsils, and inbetween, its been really difficult getting my immune system back to a normal level.


Hello NotOnUrHelly

Mine seems to get worse when i get cold, ie, winter, or even pass the freezers in asda. I bought this year a coat i have always thought Narrr, a padded quilted coat with a hood, always passed them by, but i got one when the doctor told me to wrap up warmer, and its helped my breathing much better.

Oh and i guess its walking up and down stairs, but that could be cos i am not fit enough, also i don't have any stairs at home.

Yes my PF200/220 is when i am struggling to breath, the attack seems to go on for a long time, i never had this before the pneumonia, but the past year has been quite bad.



I have found this thread the most interesting and most helpful, when i was told i have this, i thought that was the end of me running, but you all are inspiration!


If anyone want to find out where the buff is for £8 let me know and i do a history search on my favs.

Hi Folks,

I have had Asthma all my life and when well tend to be around the 450 mark. (on the blow thing)
I also was reluctant to use the steroid spray however I found that if I used it as prescribed it allowed me to be well enough to run and so get fit.

If I get fit,running between 20 and 30 miles a week consistantly I find I can reduce the steroid spray to the point that I don't use it at all in summer.

Steam has always helped my Asthma. When I was a child my Mum would boil kettles in my bedroom which helped. Now a hot bath still helps and if you are lucky enough to be able to afford it the Steam room in a gym is great.

Fitness is the key but it is a vicious circle. To help with context I am 49 and tend to be able to run a half marathon in about 1 hour and 35 minutes.

All the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Henry Porter

Hi Folks,

I have had Asthma all my life and when well tend to be around the 450 mark. (on the blow thing)
I also was reluctant to use the steroid spray however I found that if I used it as prescribed it allowed me to be well enough to run and so get fit.

If I get fit,running between 20 and 30 miles a week consistantly I find I can reduce the steroid spray to the point that I don't use it at all in summer.

Steam has always helped my Asthma. When I was a child my Mum would boil kettles in my bedroom which helped. Now a hot bath still helps and if you are lucky enough to be able to afford it the Steam room in a gym is great.

Fitness is the key but it is a vicious circle. To help with context I am 49 and tend to be able to run a half marathon in about 1 hour and 35 minutes.

All the best.

---

Thank you Henry, so being unfit, its low like mine, but when your fitter it gets better, much appreciated!