Non racers in the race/course

Often I've noticed when doing all sorts of events that you get people doing the course but who haven't entered the event ( no number, don't clip at check points, freely admit they are not in the race but just following the course )

I can kinda understand this if the event has been a sell out, but yesterday at the Long Mynd the race wasn't full to capacity, so it seems quite odd to me for someone to do the whole course and not be in the race ? :confused:

Is it a cost thing, as it was only 6 pounds ? or is there a certain train of thought I'm not privvy to going on here ?:confused:

What if everyone decided to just follow the course?

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Originally Posted by skennaugh

What if everyone decided to just follow the course?

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Quite!

I guess it comes down to what competitors are actually paying for.

Side runners wont get t-shirts etc (but then; how many t-shirts do you actually need!)

In theory they wont get a placing, but in truth, with internet results they can compare themselves to the field anyway.

The big thing that they wont get is the drive to compete. I'm doing the edale skyline next month; there's no way i'd put myself through that at race pace if i wasn't really entered. Others may think differently though.

I wouldn't like to see any kind of dictatorial move to discourage side runners. There are few of them, some may be out on their regular training run (i know i use the routes of several local races for some of my sessions) and some may be thinking of entering in the future but want to see what it's like first.

Not a fell race, but yesterday at the Winter Warmer 10K in Blackburn, I and Mrs WP ran.
Unfortunately the 10K was minimum age 17 for some reason - UKA is 15.

WPette was therefore disappointed that she could not take part, as she trains in the area and has always wanted to take part.

So she set off with her Mum, without a number, and dropped out just before the line.

No problems from anyone and she enjoyed doing one of her regular training runs in a group environment.

I was not there, but the other point to remember is that someone, say coming back from injury, might have travelled down to the event with a friend/clubmate and fancied having a bumble round the course just to get a measure of their recovery. They might not even cover the whole course, but cut a corner at some pre-determined point.

There is a problem for the organisers when instead of cutting off just before the finish they choose to run through the finish funnel. Causes all sorts of problems and sometimes incorrect results for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Norman Bates

There is a problem for the organisers when instead of cutting off just before the finish they choose to run through the finish funnel. Causes all sorts of problems and sometimes incorrect results for everyone else.

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Here, Here!

There's also a problem when a course crosses private land. The race organisors organise races for people to enter, not to take advantage of a land owners generosity. If the "bandit" were to cause damage how would the land owner know that the person concerned was not part of the event?

I'm pretty sure there would be insurance implications too? I'm sure quite a portion of monies paid goes towards insurance?

How do you know they were not in the race ?

He said they freely admit to it.

I went out for a gentle couple of hours on Saturday morning. In Crimsworth Dean not only did I come across a buzzard (never ever seen one of those in my area around Haworth before), but I also came across the Wadsworth Trog. Really enjoyed running up 'the Stairs' with some of the competitors - first time I have been 'in a race' for about 3 years !

Given that I stopped competing those 3 years ago, I did enjoy running alongside those runners for a while but I never for one second felt that I really wanted to be part of the race, which perhaps disappointed me a little.

Why did you give up racing? I'm not good enough to win but thoroughly enjoy the social aspect.

The organisers let anybody who thought they might struggle with the cut off time start an hour early,and they had a time adjustment in the results.I thought Triathlete might have guessed they were not racing due to how slow they were going when he passed them,that was why i asked.A good idea for long races if you ask me.

Sorry, wasn't having a go. Totally agree early starts are a very good idea, encourages first timers/ novices to try events.

this guy wasn't an early starter....was going fast enough to finish well inside the top half of the field

and wasn't carrying any kit at ALL !!!!!

not that clever for a very tough AM race/ run in the snow on your own:rolleyes:

I don't always carry much kit when out for a training run, usually dress more substantially though.

Insurance is a bit of a minefield. If your race is in the FRA handbook then it means that you agree to abide by FRA rules and you are covered by UKA insurance which does not cost the event organiser a penny. If someone chooses to run without registering and therefore runs unoffcially they would not be covered by the insurance.

they may just be taking it as a run out or a training run

I did winter hill on sunday as a training run but I still paid to enter though

I know most races are on public footpaths or access land so anyone is free to run where they wish. It does seem a bit of a cheek to run in the race, take advantage of the marked course marshalls etc not to mention the cameraderie of running with others and not pay the entry fee.

They can run the same route (assuming its public access) at any time they choose so why at the same time as the race?

I sometimes run the course the opposite way round. Got to be prepared to stop a lot to give way to runners, but good seeing the good guys in action, and shout abuse at friends, aquaintances etc.

Running down the steep uphills makes you particularly popular!

I did the Long Mynd on Sunday and got 'stuck' behind that same runner (red t shirt?) on a descent - you know what it's like when you catch someone and the ground makes is hard to overtake etc etc

Usually, i think, well, serves you right for not being ahead and he has every right to be there - just lump it and get past when you can. It can be frustrating when the someone else in front of them is getting away and you feel you could catch them if only you could get by......

Turns out on Sunday that the chap holding me up was the non runner - a fact i learned at the CP when he told the organiser. I got a bit narked then as the chap from Telford i was chasing was well ahead now. I asjked the guy to move aside cos i was in the race and he did, but it mad eme realise that there are race situations where side runners can cause problems when people are competing with each other.

ST

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Originally Posted by Pudgy

I sometimes run the course the opposite way round.

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In which case I reckon you ought to eat loads of food at the start, use the toilets extensively at the end, and get paid £5 by the organiser.

If it was a road race, you'd probaly have to give the organiser a t-shirt and a goody bag though.

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Originally Posted by Pudgy

Running down the steep uphills makes you particularly popular!

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yeah we can normally feel the vibrations a mile off:rolleyes:

Lad at my club regularly runs road races without entering or paying and drops out before the finish.
I don't think it's right and (along with others) have told him so....he doesn't seem to care though....which probably sums up his overall attitude to others:mad:

I personally (not having a go at anyone, just my opinion) would see this kind of behaviour as a snub to the hard working organisers.

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Originally Posted by skennaugh

I'm pretty sure there would be insurance implications too? I'm sure quite a portion of monies paid goes towards insurance?

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Surely whenever you go training you arent covered by any insurance anyway though?

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Originally Posted by Norman Bates

There is a problem for the organisers when instead of cutting off just before the finish they choose to run through the finish funnel. Causes all sorts of problems and sometimes incorrect results for everyone else.

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...especially if they wear a false number. This happened to us in the Baildon Boundary Way a few years back and screwed up the results/prizes good and proper.
At least the club managed to trace the rogue runner, who received a ban from all races for several months, and a ban from the BBW for life!

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Originally Posted by bestathlete

Surely whenever you go training you arent covered by any insurance anyway though?

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I was just thinking along the lines of- If there was an accident, would the finger of blame be pointed at race oranisers? Even if the person wasn't paid up for the race? I'm not the biggest fan of H and S. MTB races got such a pain, i ended up backing out of it all.

yeah that could be a problem - noone would believe the RO saying 'they werent in the race'

Yes they would - the injury victim would not have a race number

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

Yes they would - the injury victim would not have a race number

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Could be a niche market there for ambulance chasers-pinning race numbers on injured, unregistered fellrunners?

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Originally Posted by skennaugh

I was just thinking along the lines of- If there was an accident, would the finger of blame be pointed at race oranisers? Even if the person wasn't paid up for the race? I'm not the biggest fan of H and S. MTB races got such a pain, i ended up backing out of it all.

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What sort of thing was happening in MTB races? The few I did soem time ago ,was enter and turn up, fall off a fair few times, and get completely exhausted but no H+S

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Originally Posted by novice

What sort of thing was happening in MTB races? The few I did soem time ago ,was enter and turn up, fall off a fair few times, and get completely exhausted but no H+S

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It is laden now, believe you me!

Although we all laugh about it now, back in the early eighties my mum took part in a race in Dartmouth that my Dad was oficially entered for. Instead of stopping short of the finishing line, she continued through and completely messed up their results system:eek:! Now I don't think it's right when people run without paying to enter, but what can one do? It's a free country.

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Originally Posted by Blunt Northerner

It's a free country.

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Free? We almost have to pay to breathe these days. ;)

Interesting conumdrum. I have occasionally run alongside races in the past - Anglezarke Amble when it used to get full up. I don't like entering too far in advance so first time I joined the route after about two miles and probably also missed the last few miles to re-route to where I'd parked. It gave me a feel for the event without having to race it.
I've also entered a races in which I'd no intention of completing in order to get my fitness level up - thinking of Borrowdale (in non championship years) where my plan was to retire at Honister. One year I got talked out of retiring and paid for it going over Dale Head. At my level it's not always possible to fully complete but you want to get something out of it.
The idea of an early start for tail end charlies like me is good as it means the marshals don't have to wait around but it means you can complete the course.

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Originally Posted by Blunt Northerner

........ but what can one do? It's a free country.

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If you want a run on the hills why not run somewhere away from the crowds and be 'free'?
If you want to do a race then enter properly.
If you just join in but do not intend to go the whole way, remember that some runners might follow you should you decide to go off route to do your own thing.
Yiannis