What to eat - when to eat

I'm just playing with food again at the minute in the hope of loosing my after op recovery weight... anyhow last year I hit on a plan of eating to fuel that worked quite well... but this year I want to take it a bit further

This week I've started a habbit which means I eat a good breakfast and a large lunch (sort of like tea at lunchtime) and then what I want to do is divide the rest of my intake into a post run/training snack about 4pm (usually run/train around 6pm) and then a smaller snack after run/training at about 8/9ish

Hopefully this will work better than eating nothing after lunch untill I get back from run/training - that's late night faffing about cooking and going to bed overly full

Anyhow - ramble over!!

Any of you got any good idea's for a decent snack?

I'm interested in your approach Egglet, I am always trying to work out the best timing for calorie intake, especially when trying to lose the pounds. I too usually end up eating late at night.

Do you work mon-fri normal hours? I find I don't really want to eat my main meal of the day at work.

I think a fab pre-training snack is chopped fruit / dried fruit with yoghurt and a sprinkle of muesli or nuts/seeds. Good balance of protein and carbs with plenty of vitamins and good fats. Enjoy!

JLS

At work I keep Walnuts and dried apricots on my desk to snack, to stop me from eating rubbish.

As for a pre run snack, oats so simple golden syrup with chopped apricots.

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Originally Posted by Sarah

As for a pre run snack, oats so simple golden syrup with chopped apricots.

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I don't know how you can cope with pre run snacks. I need about 4 hours between eating anything and running or I just feel sick.

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Originally Posted by david

I don't know how you can cope with pre run snacks. I need about 4 hours between eating anything and running or I just feel sick.

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I can eat cereal upto 1.5 hours before, probably cause my running pace isn't a great deal faster than most peoples walking pace on here :o

lose pounds i am struggling to keep weight on of late! 61kg a lose of 4kg whilst on holiday, not good.

I eat when i am hungry, can normally take food on no less than an hour before a run. found on long runs it's often a good idea to have a few snacks with me to maintain some sort of calorie intake!

eat anything and lots of it,all the time

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Originally Posted by Fleeter

eat anything and lots of it,all the time

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does that mean you are round around the middle these days?

Thanks for the replies

Well I'm still cultivating the right things when! Have played about a bit and the snack idea seems to work well

My job is desk based and it's acceptable here to eat when you like - no strict rules about only a breaktimes so that makes it easier

Definatley find that on a hard training week I need more food though... that's frustrating as unlike Penguine I am trying to get some off and not on!

Thanks for the idea's of what you snack on
I must say I cant eat 2-3 hours before unless it's a banana or sweets but the 4pm snack is working - off rd training starts at 7pm so it's just right to let that settle..

Egglet, I have just lost 1 stone in 5 weeks. I eat as much as I want, when I want. I have completely lost the desire to snack. I eat fab tasty food and get blotto on wine on a regular basis. Want to know more? Check out the 'Wine and Food Lovers Diet'. It really works!:D

He looks really lissom on it as well;)

Lissom my arse. Pure thunder thighs!:p

I eat what I like when I like and I think I got your stone! LOL... Or is it I just got those "get out of jail free" jene's they are on about this week that mean it's a waist (!) of time me dieting!! LOL

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Egglet, I have just lost 1 stone in 5 weeks. I eat as much as I want, when I want. I have completely lost the desire to snack. I eat fab tasty food and get blotto on wine on a regular basis. Want to know more? Check out the 'Wine and Food Lovers Diet'. It really works!:D

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Come on then Wheeze, tell us more about this diet, I love food and wine of all discriptions so this sounds too good to be true :)

OK, its really simple, just a sensible variation on the low GI theme.
The basic physiological idea is to avoid sudden spikes in blood sugar immediately after eating. These spikes cause a large release of insulin. This is a bad thing on 3 counts.
1. The insulin promotes storage not burning of fat.
2. The insulin rapidly clears the sugar from the blood resulting in hunger again.
3. In extreme cases, repeatedly releasing large doses of insulin means that the body no longer responds (insulin fatigue) and you become diabetic.

So, by eating only foods that release their sugar slowly (so called low glycaemic foods) you prevent the release of insulin. This has the following beneficial effects.
1. Instead of storing fat, you burn it.
2. Your blood sugar levels stay steady so you don't feel hungry between meals.
3. You don't overstress the body response to insulin so your metabolism improves.

Turning your metabolism from sugar burning to fat burning takes about 4 days of feeling weird followed by a rapid improvement. I now feel 15 years younger, I have lost my spare tyre and my distance stamina has improved. I have no urge to snack and I love my food.
The wine bit is a no brainer. Wine is good for you....even the Romans knew that:D

There are lots of internet lists of low GI foods. Tesco's labels low GI products now.
Basically, avoid potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, most processed foods, anything with glucose syrup in it.
On the other hand, meat, fish, green vegetables, nuts and dairy products can be eaten at liberty. Treats include dried apricots and 70% cocoa black choccy!
The Wine and Food Lovers Diet was written by a friend. You can read about on the internet.

There are lots of internet lists of low GI foods. Tesco's labels low GI products now.
Basically, avoid potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, most processed foods, anything with glucose syrup in it.

Wheeze, so is it a low carb diet which isn't ideal for exercise? or are there carbs in other low GI foods?

Mmmh

And so what is an example of what you'd actually be eating?
What miles per day are you doing?

Also Wheeze - what are you eating for a pre race meal?

I can't do the banana thing and have discovered oats/porridge to be a big no no (both give me horrendous stitch) so now have 2 slices of wholemeal toast but guess you don't eat this anymore right?:o

Tuffer, don't confuse Low GI with Low carb. There are stacks of carbs in vegetables, nuts and things like mushrooms. Its just that they are released into the bloodstream slowly unlike sugary or starchy foods (High GI) where the carbs get hoovered up really fast. And when you think about it, you need slow release stuff to last you through a race. My eating plan now is high carb (low GI), high protein and high fat and high fibre.

Egglet, when I did my 3 x 10 mile runs in one day, my eating plan was:
Porridge and berries
Run 10 miles
Bacon, eggs and mushrooms. Greek yoghurt. Apple juice
Run 10 miles
2 Chilli Tortilla wraps. Dried apricots and 70% cocoa choccy. Black tea
Run 10 miles

No problem with energy and no cramp (unusual for me since on my previous pasta/rice type diet I always got it).

Emmy, I've never been one to obsess about a pre-race meal. If toast does it for you, fine. Me, I just lob down a bit of dark choccy and keep going on dried apricots.

And in case anyone else thinks I'm obsessive about this, I'm not. Its just that I have changed the habits of a lifetime, walked away from a whole load of BS talked about food (by so-called experts) and now feel a whole lot better for it.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

My eating plan now is high carb (low GI), high protein and high fat and high fibre.

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Some of this is interesting but bits of it are just bobbins - how is High Fat good for you?

For instance, Carbs, protein & fat are the three sources of calories and generally diets or eating plans can be described in the approximate ratio each to the other - in other words between the three of them to account for 100% of calorie intake. So you could have a High Fat, High Protein, Low Carb or High Carb, Low Fat, Low Protein but all three can't be high.

Most of all, bear in mind this is a diet and it is subtitled "28 Days of Delicious Weight Loss". That is it - a 28 day plan - it isn't a way a life, it is just another diet, from another "expert"!

You have to wonder about a diet that restricts starchy carbs (potatoes' GI depends largely on how they are cooked) but allows you to get blotto on wine (with all the calories that involves). Diets work like prisons work, in the short term and often with detrimental long term results.

The low GI stuff and the insulin response is well known and widely recognised the problem, if you are an aspiring author is how to dress it, up so that it appeals to already jaded diet book audience.

I am not knocking anyone who does three (10 mile) sessions a day but bear in mind the glycogen in you leg muscles should be sufficient to take to 19 -20 miles and only thereafter do you have to rely on other energy sources. 10 miles isn't enough to 'empty you legs', 20 miles is and mileage thereafter needs other energy sources. 20+ mile sessions test your eating habits in a way that 3 x 10 mile sessions don't.

Wheeze, you are to be congratulated on your weight loss and feeling so chipper with it but now is the time to stand back a bit, have a look at other nutritional options and think about a way of life and not just a 28 day plan.

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Tuffer, don't confuse Low GI with Low carb. There are stacks of carbs in vegetables, nuts and things like mushrooms. Its just that they are released into the bloodstream slowly unlike sugary or starchy foods (High GI) where the carbs get hoovered up really fast. And when you think about it, you need slow release stuff to last you through a race. My eating plan now is high carb (low GI), high protein and high fat and high fibre.

Egglet, when I did my 3 x 10 mile runs in one day, my eating plan was:
Porridge and berries
Run 10 miles
Bacon, eggs and mushrooms. Greek yoghurt. Apple juice
Run 10 miles
2 Chilli Tortilla wraps. Dried apricots and 70% cocoa choccy. Black tea
Run 10 miles

No problem with energy and no cramp (unusual for me since on my previous pasta/rice type diet I always got it).

Emmy, I've never been one to obsess about a pre-race meal. If toast does it for you, fine. Me, I just lob down a bit of dark choccy and keep going on dried apricots.

And in case anyone else thinks I'm obsessive about this, I'm not. Its just that I have changed the habits of a lifetime, walked away from a whole load of BS talked about food (by so-called experts) and now feel a whole lot better for it.

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that would not be enuff food for me after 30miles, id eat the house out
2 tortillas for tea, eck id need at least 400gramms of pasta and sauce, yum

FSS, the 28 day bit is just a bit of promotional fluff to hook a largely jaded audience and to appeal to those who are seriously overweight. As aspiring athletes, few of us are and so you can ignore all those bits of the book. The underlying change of eating habits is crucial though. If you have got the book and read on past the 'weight loss' bit, there is a discussion of fat and what it means to our metabolism. Basically, we have been sold a pup by so called experts who extol a low fat diet. The truth is 'fat does not make you fat'. You need an enabler like highly processed sugars to make the fat go to your hips. And the whole cholesterol and bad fat science has holes shot all through it.
What the eating plan does is turn you from a sugar burner to a fat burner. If you look at primitive diets, they are often high in fat as that is the principle source of energy. So a 'high fat' diet is not, on its own, harmful. The Kalahari tribesmen subsist on a diet of nuts, fatty meat and whatever root vegetables they can find and are fit as butchers dogs. Admittedly, their lifespan is probably nearer 60 rather than 80!

Wheeze

We could bandy about traditional diets until the cows come and, indeed, I might point you to the traditional Scottish west highland diet of oats, potatoes and herring - high in (starchy) carbs, low in fat (v low in saaturated fat) and low in protein which many would argue is perfect - but both diets to some extent and the Kalahari Tribesmen's in particular developed through 'availablity' rather than choice.

What matters rather more is, when we have the choice, what is it we choose?

"Fat burning rather than sugar burning" is an attractive sound bite and what is considerably more important to an athlete, an endurance athlete, is whether 'fat burning' can produce fuel fast enough for 'running muscles'. Unless you run very slowly indeed, at less than 65% of MHR, the answer is that 'fat burning' cannot produce fuel fast enough for running muscles.

Every marathon runner carries round the course enough body fat to fuel the entire marathon, in fact many marathons, but the energy just isn't available - fast enough. Endurance athletes need carbs - starchy, slow release carbs to run on and to live on and fast release carbs to replenish depleted glycogen stores with. Athletes don't need a high fat diet and can't use the fat as a significant energy source when running. That is another reason why a "High Carbs, High Protein, High Fat" diet is bobbins.

i like cake.

Me too, especially homemade ones, lemon drizzle and victoria sponge inparticular.

All I know is, I can achieve the performance I want eating this way. I feel the best I have in years, I sleep better, and I'm enjoying the experiment. So what if it challenges established doctrine? Isn't that what life is all about? If thats bobbins, I'll take it thank you.

Don't miss cake, one little bit! Now toast...that's different, but we all make sacrifices to achieve goals. Ooer, and pasties too! Damn, damn and triple damn! Better scoff some cheese quick!

Just done 160 miles in 5 days on the low GI plan. No probs at all with nutrition. Drank only water whilst running. Felt good all round. Pasta? Pah!:cool:

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Just done 160 miles in 5 days on the low GI plan. No probs at all with nutrition. Drank only water whilst running. Felt good all round. Pasta? Pah!:cool:

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He neglected to tell you about the wind and bowel problem then:eek:

I blame the dried apricots.....parp!!

My "Tinned Pineapple Rings" diet doesn't work :eek:

A spectacular failure! I bet the result made some vermin very happy!!

:eek: But at least he gave it a try

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Originally Posted by Wheeze

Basically, avoid potatoes, rice, pasta, bread...

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Interesting thoughts Wheeze and I'm glad the diet works for you; my weight plateaus at 11.5 stone and I would love to get to 10 stone something (even 10 stone 13 would be good.) Maybe your regime would work for me, but I couldn't possibly follow this diet - I live on all the no-nos you've mentioned, in fact I love carbs :p. I can't imagine life without crusty bread, or thick white toast and marmite, jacket spuds, new potatoes, roast tatties, carbonara, paella, sushi and rice, sticky rice, seafood pasta :(.

All of those things were absolute faves with me too, along with fruit cake, choccy biccies, bananas, peanut butter and jam toasties, rissotto. All these have GONE!

The only thing that's holding you back from your goal is the willingness to give the plan a try. If thats the case, the goal cannot be that important to you.
If it is important to you, prove it by giving the plan a go. You never know till you try. Just like my thoughts as I took the first step in the Pen Y Pass car park, I had no idea if I would make it to Pen Y Fan, but I'd never know until that first step has been taken.