Is it just me or does anyone else think it would be a good idea to have some fra jnr relays :D
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Is it just me or does anyone else think it would be a good idea to have some fra jnr relays :D
There used to be one mate. Great race from People's Hall in Sedbergh. It consisted of an u12, an u14 and an u16 or an u18. Legs got longer from each age group, but all came straight down the face of Winder . I ran it in my Skipton days for the first time and we won (Me, Sam Westcott and James Mountain in the team) Got lots of prizes:vouchers, trophies, medals etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by scott baistow 93
I don't know why they stopped it now you come to mention it. Results from that year are on http://www.ukresults.net/2006/helmrelay.html
keep your ears out scott!!!!!!!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by scott baistow 93
I believe that they stopped it as no one else was willing to host.
Problem with such an event is finding clubs that have fell runners in each age group to fit the bill. There's probably only 3 or 4 clubs that could get teams out.
But it may take place as a non title event at the FRA Junior Do next year. So watch for Lecky and see what he sets up - I'm sure he'd be glad to know that there's some interest.
there quite a few clubs know inoo we would probs be able to have 3 teams
Lets see
Wharfedale
Calder Valley
Todmorden (maybe)
Helm Hill
Keighley and Craven
Blackburn (????)
Rossendale
Skipton
Horwich
CLEM
Im sure some of the welsh, scottish and irish could get over if you had international teams as well
Still hardly an abundance
Cmon Alistair.
Do you reckon calder valley could do it with the coiners courses
coiners course what about the sedbergh course again ?Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
yeah but you need a local organiserQuote:
Originally Posted by scott baistow 93
sedbergh school team ellenborough,cfr,ilkley,pendle there would be more aswellQuote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
so go on - Identify how you would get teams of 3 in Boys and Girls out of EllenboroughQuote:
Originally Posted by scott baistow 93
Cumberland Fell Runners
Ilkley
Pendle
even if you did 1 from each age group, you'd only manage a CFR Boys team fron the FRA participants from 2009.
Based on athletes that have taken part in at least 1 FRA Champs Race 2009, I think you would find only Rossy, CVFR, Helm Hill, Wharfedale, Blackburn in the Boys and Blackburn in the Girls.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
That's assuming an U12, U14 and either U16 or U18.
So if this goes ahead, it has to be worked out in a non-club way.
Club competitions based on age groups don't work well; they simply are dominated by which ever club has the most runners in any given year. This has been the pattern over the last decade or so.
As WP says, when you look closely at the stats of runners in age groups and clubs, there are very few clubs who could enter. This is further reduced, when you take out those runners who only did their local race i.e. presumably don't want to travel.
This is the prime reason that the relay and club championships were dropped.
The situation is worse, when considering a home countries relay. At the recent British & Irish races, some countries were unable to raise a full team in all age groups.
However, this doesn't mean we should stop thinking of ways to develop junior fell running. Keep the ideas coming. :)
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
No!:dQuote:
Originally Posted by turbotom
why notQuote:
Originally Posted by Clash City Rocker
Because there is little point in organising a race that sadly won't work. See earlier posts by WP and me. There are not enough clubs with a sufficient spread of junior runners across the age groups - CleM have none by the way! Have a look at this year's championship points tables sorted by club on felljunior website to see just how uneven the spread is. There seems to be no solution that gives an equal chance to the most clubs, with the current number of runners.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTom
The tricky age category is the U16 or 18 boys and girls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Like a number of clubs we at Ilkley are a thinner on the ground at that age group.
Those we do have are quality though; new BOFRA ladies senior champ at 17. ;)
I went to the Sedbergh event twice and it was excellent.
We have done the Uphills twice at Ilkey and could probably construct something bearing in mind the relatively small numbers involved. Parking is our major problem.
Don't know how the Club might react to such a request.
Might be worth asking? :D
Excellent idea.
Could have a leg each for under 8`s, 10`s, 12`s, 14`s and 16`s. Making the under 16`s leg orienteering (easy though).
Would welcome feedback on the idea of a orienteering leg in a juniors relay.
As has been stated several times already on this thread, how many clubs can provide sufficient runners for 12,14,16, never mind 8 and 10 as well? The championship stats suggest very few. Unless, we can find a way of making team composition more flexible, without putting some clubs at an overwhelming disadvantage, this idea unfortunately is a non-starter.Quote:
Originally Posted by dowy
An FRA junior relay championship based on a handful of eligible clubs is meaningless. However, a non-championship relay race based on ad-hoc teams, clubs, schools, friends, families would be great fun, and has already been suggested by Lecky.
I read it as dowy suggesting a single relay team for each club, in which the separate legs were run by a runner (or pair of runners?) from each age category - that might work...?
As Felljunior and I have been saying - the idea in principal sounds like fun - the idea in practice is a non-starter.
1. If you make it single age group, hardly any club will get a team out - who has 3 runners in an age group?
I cannot genuinely do it in age age group, but could draft in track runners to make up most age groups.
Genuine Fell runners, perhaps 4 clubs may get a couple of teams out.
2. If you make it mixed age group, you then have perhaps 6 clubs max that can get a mixed age group team together from genuine fell runners.
The only option is to remove the club element. It works for the Bunny Run relays. Allow athletes to come together (or be drawn together) to make relay teams of 3.
The only problem with this option is that it then becomes less of a competitive event and more a fun event, and people may be less inclined to travel for it, or take time out to do it when there are other "real" events around.
Name a club that could findQuote:
Originally Posted by DazTheSlug
1xU8
1xU10
1xU12
1xU14
and 1x U16 or U18
That's what Felljunior and I have been saying - there aren't any.
The 2009 junior championship stats by club are here
Three legs, one for each age group 12, 14, 16.
One runner from each club in each leg.
Even allowing mixed teams; how many clubs can raise enough runners?
Brilliant if they can, and are prepared to commit to the resurrection of a championship relay race, but the numbers suggest otherwise.
Hence the only option at the moment seems to be an ad-hoc race for maximum fun and enjoyment for everyone.
Coiners routes would work nicely as would lots of venues and the idea would be great but as has been said by readers of the thread it wont work because of numbers, a handful of clubs could muster a team with a runner from each category. It would be ahuge amount of work for very little return and frankly I cant afford the time.
The principle should be used for a fun event such as the FRA Presentation do as per the discussions for next years do where runners from age groups can be picked from a hat to make up teams. Lets see how it goes there.
I'm not sure that venue is a problem - it's viability as an event that's the main issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by BGSec
http://www.fellrunner.org.uk/results...niorrelays.htm
These are the results from the last one held (I think) and you can see it's very muddled with 19 teams but 3 categories.
I obviously haven't got the faintest idea what I'm talking about :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
but I do find the above quite surprising
Actually we could field a couple decent boys teams but thats all next year we will have our first U14 girls but it will be a few years before we could field a full girls team. As previously stated there are a handful of clubs if that in a similar situationQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
I agree CCR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clash City Rocker
But there are problems with this fun concept.
Many of the runners who were at Viking Chase this year are at clubs with other commitments.
Our Club/athletes had :-
The North of England Track and Field Cup
The North West Road Relays
The English Schools Fell Champs
Northern 6&4 Stage Road Relays
Northern Young Athletes Road Relays.
The race calendar is very congested.
Given a competitive events calendar, runners may opt not to attend a fun randomly drawn relay event as it could be seen as 1 event too many.
On the contrary DTS :), you're right, the distribution of runners across the age groups is quite distorted. It tends to go in waves. 10/12 years ago my son was the only junior Rossendale fell runner, and Holmfirth were dominant. This year we had 25 runners in the championship + some in 8 and 10. But when you analyse further, the majority only did their local race(s). Holmfirth had one championship runner. There is quite a small hardcore of clubs and runners who support the championship. The composition changes as runners grow up and parents/coaches move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by DazTheSlug
wharfedale :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
u8- sam jonstone
u10-charlie lowrie
u12-lloyd davies
u14-ben jonston
u18-jonny bradshaw
;)
Touche - so we can all turn up to watch a Wharfedale demonstration run:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by scott baistow 93
:D ...except at leg 3 last Sunday :o :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
There aren't enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Just a thought but how about some kind of open "counties" type event with club runners counting towards their home county? Might be awkward to work into teams for a relay but would give at least a Yorks/Lancs/Cumbria event and possibly a 'rest of the world' team too. Could someone with more knowledge of organising comps say if this is a workable idea?
because you get people like me with a club in yorkshire a postcode that is lancs but yet apparantly lives in GMQuote:
Originally Posted by Rawhead
Yes I understand that TT. I wasn't suggesting it be as formal as a county champs race but just the clubs' results counting towards their county not the individuals. That at least would give sufficent spread of runners across the age groups.
brill ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by Rawhead
I run some junior races in the Clwyds. Although CRR run the series we don't affliate the kids to clubs. We might be able to pull together a team and a child from each group would be great for the team effort. The problem would more be travelling any distance. Few of the parents would want to go a great distance. Possibly we should try to arrange something in wales to cut travel.
Mary
I think I heard Witton Park suggesting Clwyd as a possible future championship venue which would be great (although the politics of an English Champs race in Wales may be an issue).
By the way the link from the Welsh FRA site for the Clwydian junoir series was a dead end this year, with only the last race being advertised on this forum, (unfortunately clashing with the final FRA Junior race).