Early female fell runner

The Cilcain Mountain Race has been held annually since 1973, which would appear to make it the second-oldest fell race in Wales (after the 1000m Peaks), although it didn't start appearing in the FRA Calendar until some time in the 1980's, and Bill Smith appeared unaware of its existence when he wrote Studmarks. However, according to the Cilcain Show website, the first race was held in 1960 (and there is no mention of any races between 1961 and 1972). There is a rather interesting sentence about the 1960 race on the webpage about the Show's history:

The outright winner was George Young (45) of Chorley, second Harry Williams (20), the Crown, third John Beach (21) the Homestead (now Ty Coch) and First Lady was Susan Beach (14).

Apart from the revelation that Darren Fishwick is not the first elite veteran fell runner to come out of Chorley, what caught my attention was the mention of the First Lady. Less celebrated than the feat of 16-year-old Kathleen Connochie in finishing the Ben Nevis Race five years before, we have an even younger lady racing up and down Moel Famau. She would appear to be a local, presumably the sister of the man who finished third. There is no hint in the report of any controversy (as there was in the case of Kathleen Connochie). There is no mention of any other female runners (it just says that there were 19 runners), and the website doesn't have an archive of results, so I don't know if women were running when the race was revived in 1973.

It is interesting to note how young both Susan Beach and Kathleen Connochie were. Was it maybe considered acceptable for young girls to do such athletic activities but still frowned on for grown women to behave in this way?

Interesting point, Anthony.
There were female entrants in fell races before the Connochie controversy of 1955. As I noted in 'It's a hill, get over it': "The Lake District Mountain Trail had actually added ladies’ races in 1953 and 1954, but attracted few entrants and it wasn’t a success." Bill Smith in Studmarks notes for the 1953 (Coronation) LDMT: "There was also a ladies race this year which went up Rossett Gill, across Esk Pike and Bowfell and back down the Band. There were 4 competitors, of whom Jane Allesbrook of Cark-in-Cartmel was easily the fastest in 2-14.39, being accompanied by her two dogs; and she was followed by 17-year-old C.H. Mawson of Windermere in 2.46.12 .....".
NB: only 15 runners started the men's event that year.
One of the 20 runners in the first LDMT (also in Langdale) in the first year of 1952 was 16-year-old Peter Fleming, who finished 4th after going off first in the staggered start for the 16 mile course.
All this in a climate where the Olympic Games didn't even include the 800m as it was 'too dangerous for women to run' (after having been included in 1928, and eventually being re-introduced in 1960).

Yes Steve, there is an interesting disconnect between attitudes to women in orienteering-style events like the LDMT and in what might be called standard fell races. Was this because the latter were governed by the Athletics authorities (e.g. AAA in England) which, as you point out, still maintained rather 19th-century attitudes well into the 20th century?

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Yes Steve, there is an interesting disconnect between attitudes to women in orienteering-style events like the LDMT and in what might be called standard fell races. Was this because the latter were governed by the Athletics authorities (e.g. AAA in England) which, as you point out, still maintained rather 19th-century attitudes well into the 20th century?

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I think you mean the WAAA Anthony. Women ran under regulations determined by the Womens AAA and it is wrong to suggest it was always we awful men who were to blame.

I once set out a XC course at Nunroyd Park,Guiseley (home of Skyrac AC) for the West Yorkshire XC Association on the standard route, but which that year included about 15 feet of mud a few inches deep in a shallow hollow.

Shortly before the start the West Yorkshire Woman In Charge came up and instructed me to retape the route away from the hollow because she wasn't having "her girls" running through mud.

And so they didn't. ;)

Presumably after running a cross-country race without mud, the "girls" sat down to a meal of curry without spice, washed down with wine without alcohol. :)

Footnotes to my original post:-

This page confirms that there were no races at Cilcain between 1961 and 1972. It also appears to show that after the race was revived in 1973, no women ran until 1980.

I have just looked at the 1981 FRA Calendar cover, reproduced in Graham Breeze's article in the last Fellrunner magazine. Cilcain is listed there, but is given category C; the race is now AS, and has always gone up Moel Famau, so category C can't be right! Its appearance in the Calendar as early as 1981 makes it slightly surprising that it is omitted from Studmarks, although in his preface Bill Smith does say that "My main concern has been with races and runners from the traditional fell racing areas of Northern England and Scotland . . .".

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Footnotes to my original post:-

This page confirms that there were no races at Cilcain between 1961 and 1972. It also appears to show that after the race was revived in 1973, no women ran until 1980.

I have just looked at the 1981 FRA Calendar cover, reproduced in Graham Breeze's article in the last Fellrunner magazine. Cilcain is listed there, but is given category C; the race is now AS, and has always gone up Moel Famau, so category C can't be right! Its appearance in the Calendar as early as 1981 makes it slightly surprising that it is omitted from Studmarks, although in his preface Bill Smith does say that "My main concern has been with races and runners from the traditional fell racing areas of Northern England and Scotland . . .".

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FRA Calendar Listings

27th August 1979 8 miles 1100ft Record: A Blackwell 1976 27.50

25th August 1980 6 miles 1200ft D Messum 1979 27.10

31st August 1981 4 miles 1200ft J Wild 1980 25.08

sic.

Then not listed for several years.

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Originally Posted by Graham Breeze

FRA Calendar Listings

27th August 1979 8 miles 1100ft Record: A Blackwell 1976 27.50

25th August 1980 6 miles 1200ft D Messum 1979 27.10

31st August 1981 4 miles 1200ft J Wild 1980 25.08

sic.

Then not listed for several years.

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Very strange, since the course didn't change at all during that period: see http://www.clwydianfellrace.org/?page_id=375 . The organiser finally sent the correct details to the FRA Fixtures Secretary in 1981, and then gave up sending them for a while!

8 miles in 27 minutes would be pretty impressive, regardless of the terrain.

Just a correction - remember not everything you read on the internet is true - it is not primary source material.

I have been unable to determine if there was a race in 1961. I am pretty sure (99.9%) 1962-1972 didn't happen.

I have been unable to determine if there were any female runners in the 1973-1980 races i.e. I only have the first three runners from newspaper clippings (hours on the library micro-fiche!!!) and the few FRA results returns. So there may have been female runners.

I finally got the last male winner slot of 1984 this last year - just haven't updated the website yet. Would be delighted to hear from any former lady winners (or racers) pre-1981.

Still a question over the record time. The official record is John Messum in 1985 26.23 (which is seriously quick). John Wild's time in 1980 was recorded at 26.46 though newspaper & FRA report states 25.08. John Wild was in superb form at this period so although I don't fully rule it out (especially as an eye-witness believed it to be a low 25 - but this may be that he read the paper/FRA time afterwards as it was nearly 40 years ago) but it was the same RO the following year and the winning time there was recorded 26.46 (David Messum) and stated 3 seconds slower than the record. Interestingly the following year a 26.46 (Glyn Griffiths) was also recorded followed by the first of 4 wins for John Messum 26.49 in 1983.

Even now the Fell Runner magazine doesn't always print race results that are sent - so maybe it wasn't the RO at fault :rolleyes:
hop

Oh yes and Susan Beach should have been not allowed to race (or DSQ) as the race was "open for all 16 to 60" and she was 14...

In Anthony Kay's original post, are the numbers in brackets the ages of the runners at that time or are they the runners' race numbers? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

In Anthony Kay's original post, are the numbers in brackets the ages of the runners at that time or are they the runners' race numbers? Just a thought.

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The information was quoted from the Cilcain Show website, and I just assumed that the numbers were ages; it seems more likely than quoting race numbers, which would be of less interest to readers.

Anyway, thanks to Hoppynet for the update, and I hope you are successful in digging out information on the early years of the race.

Anthony,

many race results sheets, although in order of finish position, also have a column for each finisher's race number. It could be that whoever compiled the Cilcain Show website was merely copying out all the information given against each runner on a tabulated results sheet?
It is rare for a results sheet to show the exact age ( to the actual year ) of every runner.

Ian.

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

The information was quoted from the Cilcain Show website, and I just assumed that the numbers were ages; it seems more likely than quoting race numbers, which would be of less interest to readers.

Anyway, thanks to Hoppynet for the update, and I hope you are successful in digging out information on the early years of the race.

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Originally Posted by wheezing donkey

Anthony,

many race results sheets, although in order of finish position, also have a column for each finisher's race number. It could be that whoever compiled the Cilcain Show website was merely copying out all the information given against each runner on a tabulated results sheet?

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Yes, that is possible. I think I was assuming that the information had been copied from a local newspaper report, where you typically get people's ages in brackets. I suppose we can't settle it unless someone unearths an original results sheet, or finds a report in the archives of the local newspaper. (Where's Bill Smith when you need him?)

John Messum, who held the record for many years, is still around coaching juniors at Deeside AC - he might know something - will ask next time I see him.

Susan Beech was 14. Ran in plimsolls. There are a couple of pics on the website.

Ages are in brackets from newspaper article. Was big news in 1960 as there was a item in the paper the day before the race then the race right up. Obviously the journalist was out for the weekend!

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Originally Posted by hoppynet

Susan Beech was 14. Ran in plimsolls. There are a couple of pics on the website.

Ages are in brackets from newspaper article. Was big news in 1960 as there was a item in the paper the day before the race then the race right up. Obviously the journalist was out for the weekend!

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Thank you for this confirmation. Where are the pictures from 1960? I've looked on both the Clwydian fell race and the Cilcain Show websites, and can't find them.

A thousand apologies. Missed your reply. When I checked you are correct - no pics on the website just some later clippings.

I have popped most of the older pictures up on

https://www.clwydianfellrace.org/?page_id=504

If you want any details on any in particular let me know (best emailing me).

hop

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoppynet

I have popped most of the older pictures up on

https://www.clwydianfellrace.org/?page_id=504

If you want any details on any in particular let me know (best emailing me).

hop

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Thank you, that is brilliant! There are some tantalising references in the newspaper reports: in the 1960 reports it is expected that the race will be held annually, while the 1973 reports say that it had not been held for 10 years. So was the race run in 1961/2/3? I suppose it would need someone to delve into the archives of the local press to find out.

I also note that Chorley, the home of the 1960 winner, was not the Lancashire Chorley as I had assumed, but the village of Chorley between Nantwich and Malpas.

Yes. Darren Fishwick retains his crown ;-)
I have recently contacted the winners family with a view to getting them to this years race. Luckily live on the same farm.

The 1961 race was advertised in the 61 Show Programme but there were no details given and the show archives have no information after the 60 race. Unfortuneatly the local paper of the time as long since vanished and the local library doesn't hold copies. I think it may be a Chester records office or bust mission on this.

My own feeling is that 61 did not happen but I could be wrong. Pretty sure 62-72 is a definite NO.

I have asked Harry Williams (local farmer who was 2nd in the first race) if he remembers - likely to be the only one if anyones remembers (or cares!).
hop