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I entered this, and now I am injured and don't think recovery will be in time (30 March). The entry list is full but substitutions are allowed. Please post here if you'd like my place, substitution is through SI entries.
Details at https://www.nav4.co.uk/lakes-mountain-42
Gill
Yes please! But SI says there's a waiting list, which suggests first come first served, doesn't it? I went on that but I have no idea how close I am to the top because we can't see it.
I asked Joe (organiser) for the waiting list so I could contact people on the list, but he is happy for me to make direct approaches. If you say you're on the waiting list, that's good enough for me. I'll send you a PM.
Thanks bollygill. :)
I think I'm cursed for all Nav4 events, had to give TdH place away last year due to inury and I've been nursing an ankle thing for the last week.
Going to just plod round LM42, hopefully make it back in time for last orders!
It's a long way to plod...! I had to limp back the shortened race last year, from Side Farm back to the finish... never-ending!Quote:
Originally Posted by dazthemook
Never ending? Can't have been that bad; you still beat me by an hour and I wasn't injured!Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
dazthemook, I hope you mend by LM42. There's still time. I can sympathise; I was forced to miss TdH as well.
:D i guess the fact that i was injured was negated by the truly awful weather conditions, which caused everyone to slow down!
Can't rate this race highly enough... although it's all on paths of some sort, it really is a 'fellrunners ultra'. I've heard (and indeed experienced myself) more than one navigational or route-choice mishap.
Yes it can be challenging, especially in the clag. I have an inbuilt picture of the terrain from plotting the route on Tracklogs then use 1:25,000 print-outs to refresh the memory as I go, so no notable mishaps so far. Last year before High Street at High Raise it was easy to lose the path and drop too far to the left, but that was easily corrected because we know we shouldn't be doing that. I heard stories of some ending up near Haweswater, probably hankering after a bit of Lakeland 100. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
The other error I heard about was missing the little right turn-off on the way to Angle Tarn and ending up down at Hayeswater. Oops.
Haweswater is an interesting one... i'm not even sure how that could be managed without realising something was untoward!
I began on the way down to Hayeswater last year but corrected it quite early and only lost about 5 mins.
One place I've seen/heard people go astray is missing the turn in the Hellvellyn Ridge at Lower Man... people unwittingly heading on down Browncove Crags towards Thirlmere.
Also on Helvellyn, people taking the OCT route in ascent aiming way off to the right, and effectively doing a direct climb of Nethermost Pike. After taking the OCT route in ascent a couple of years ago, it nearly finished me off even though i nailed it spot on, i'll be sticking to the longer path this year!
I've had an issue or two in the past getting down into the valley after Place Fell, mainly due to fatigue and loss of concentration... think I've got it cracked now. And of course, the final bit across Moor Divock on the way back is easily cocked-up if not concentrating!
Do people usually cut the corner from Grisedale Tarn down towards Wythburn? I did it the other week as it looks like the obvious way on a map, but the ground was pretty horrible after the tarn and the descent was super steep down to pick up the forest track. Reckon I'll go down Raise Beck on the day to save the legs...
Having gone through the same dilemma in 2017, and made a right hash of it, i'd say your intention to go down the beck is the correct one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank
Ok, ta. I also had a go straight up Place Fell. Strava gave 475m of ascent in 1km. Seemed like crazy hard work compared to Boredale Hause. That was on fresh legs too! Another route option I'll be filing under 'not on the day'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
There's another thread re this race a bit further down... this one is discussed in more detail.
I've done both in the race. General consensus is there's possibly a couple of minutes saving by going direct, even at that stage in the race. But the after-effects of such an effort more than negate those couple of minutes saved.
I went straight up Place Fell in the hot and sunny year of 2017. The sun was really beating down at that point. Even with multiple rest stops 'to admire the view' and many steps containing no forward motion but sideways stumbles instead, I still beat others who went the long way round. When the gradient eased at the left turn up the grassy gully to the trig point, I soon picked up speed. I wasn't aware of it taking too much out of me, probably thanks to my slow climbing. I seemed to manage OK after that all the way to the finish.
Having only run the race in 2017, when the biggest problem was the heat, all these stories of people finding themselves misplaced sound ridiculous. Famous last words.
I've been looking at a few of the route choice. From Grisedale I reckon you're best to commiting to either extreme. Either contour waaaay across and drop down to the church the same way you'll come out, or stick to the beck, maybe even running along the road if you don't mind getting a little bit run over. Going up Helvellyn and Place Fell, the direct lines cut so much distance I don't see how they can fail to be faster. I took neither in 2017 so I'm counting on those to take at least an hour off my time.
2017-2018 was the biggest contrast in race conditions I've came across. In 2017 i was borderline sunstroke and couldn't wear a shirt to work for almost a week due to the sunburn. 2018 was shortened and for anyone going up Place Fell without experience, perhaps life-threatening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ally
I think the short-cuts are potentially quicker if you 100% know the exact best line. The 'standard' paths are such fast going that any mistake on the shortcut negates the distance saving. As for the OCT up Helvellyn… i would consider myself a strong climber, but i lost time against slower runners who stayed on the path.
Place Fell direct is undoubtedly a saving in time of several minutes (perhaps even 5-10 for a very strong climber?) but after 30 miles has the potential to finish you off.
Although you will be significantly further up the field than me.
I'll be sticking to the main routes this year, and still aiming for a big pb on account of better fitness and experience.
I'm all mouth no trousers on this stuff. Make great plans ahead of race day then wimp out and bin them on race day. Plan A: find someone that looks like they know why they're doing.
Hadn't considered this, but it's definitely the most direct line. That said, it looks like it might get a bit interesting from Birkside Gill onwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ally
Almost certainly won't be out this weekend. Not run for a couple of weeks with a calf strain. Tried a couple of km on Monday and it didn't go well. Gutted.
[QUOTE=Hank;648060]Hadn't considered this, but it's definitely the most direct line. That said, it looks like it might get a bit interesting from Birkside Gill onwards.
QUOTE]
Exactly... what is the distance saving... perhaps a km (5-6mins?)
That's 5-6mins less what you lose for the underfoot conditions (which are much inferior to the path), plus what you lose in unknown territory getting down to the car park.
In a race of such distance, i just can't see (at my level of racing) the benefits of this gamble.
n.b i should add that i did make a bit of an attempt at it in 2017, which didn't go well, which perhaps explains my bias!
Did a bit of a recce yesterday of the first and last quarters of the route, namely askham > high st > patterdale > place fell and askham
After reading this thread I decided to give Place Fell direct a go, 55 mins from starkeys to the trig and quite frankly anyone doing that on race day deserves a medal, I'll be sticking to the "wimp" route on saturday :D
Also, thoughts on taking Swirral > Hole In The Wall after White Side? Likelihood it'll be based on conditions on the day but looking across from Place Fell yesterday it was looking like a good shout
That is a huge detour and i can guarantee you'll be the only one who makes that choice! It would mean a long climb back onto Helvellyn, then another climb back up onto Hole In The Wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by dazthemook
Zig-zags off White Side into Glenridding valley, and back to Patterdale via Glenridding village and the road.
I toyed with the idea of trying this on a recce as it looks good on the map. I was dissuaded by thinking how long it'd take me to get back to the top of Swirral Edge from Whiteside. I reckon it's pretty much bang on a mile and getting on for 150m of climb. I'm guessing that'd take me 15ish minutes on the day depending on how knackered I am. 15mins down the zig-zags from Whiteside and I'd be past the steepest section and on the gentle run down to the mines, which is probably still further from Patterdale than the top of Swirral, but much easier going and definitely quicker and easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by dazthemook
Fair one, looks good on paper and only ever been that way back east. Will go White Side to the mines, temptation not to stop in Glenridding for a pint not withstanding!
So that was excellent, exceptionally hard graft and I placed terribly. Loads to work on but already planning the next. Got Lakeland 5 Passes in June which should be canny too.
Winner came in 7.05 which is mindblowing to me, I was nearly double that!
Yep really enjoyed it, my first one of these type of things and loved the event and general atmosphere. Weather was pretty much perfect for it too. Liked the fact it felt okay to stand around eating and chatting mid way through a ‘race’ too!
Glad you enjoyed it. MrRTS ran it too. Furthest he has ever ran! He enjoyed it but from the half way point he couldn't eat anything. Gels and energy drink was ok but for that distance you need to be chewing on something. He had some peanuts at the last CP and he was still trying to swallow them 30 mins later haha. He had to stop on the way home to grab a burger as he was shaking. He is still tired today but no aches/pains or injuries. We have so much booked already for this year but he said he will give the series a go next year. The guy that won it was whoooooshhhhh!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dazthemook
We are both getting into the longer stuff this year. I have my 1st ultra (30 mile) on Saturday, The 3 Shires 30. Gulp! I've had my eyelashes done and my hair so if I appear on Helicopter 999 I won't embarrass the Club ;-)
Really enjoyable event - 2nd time running it, weather much kinder than last year, although the mist made the Grisedale Tarn bit quite tricky. There's a lot of time to be saved there if you cut across, but we went straight down the beck to keep it safe.
Wasted some time trying to find the control at Angle Tarn, knew it was meant to be on the little island but could see 2 runners already there who couldn't find it, so got drawn to the tents beyond it to find a bemused wild camper and had to double back again - still took another few minutes and about 7 or 8 runners hunting to actually find it.
Reckon can definitely trim some time off, 3 or 4 wrong route choices, and hope to try again next year
Where shall I go to pick up the award? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dazthemook
After death-marching far too early up Grisedale (where I was a bit shocked to meet Ken Sutor on his way back down after having called it a day around the environs of Grisedale Tarn) then death-marching even worse on the lo-o-o-ong drag up to the ice-cold summit of Helvellyn, I still dithered at the foot of Place Fell thinking shall I, shan't I? Oh, what the hell, go for it. I'd forgotten how long it is and how the gradient steepens even more and drags on after the left bend up the shallow drainage. The breeze had disappeared, the sweat was dripping off me and I seemed to be spending as much time in recovery rests as in making vertical progress. It all felt worthwhile when I was delivered precisely to the trig point, where it was flat calm, not a breath of wind. Amazing. Contrary to what you might expect, I didn't pay a price for the climb because I 'ran' pretty well to the finish. I didn't get overtaken after Patterdale. Looking at my split from Patterdale to Martindale Church, I have to move up 15 places to find a faster one. I know I leapfrogged a few who'd taken the long way round. It is worth it if you've got the bottle.
P.S. I passed between the recently planted Hawthorn trees on the lower slopes with their black buds on the verge of bursting into life. Nice work by those who planted them.
Travs, how did you go on?
For anyone interested, here are the photos I took on the day.
I sadly dropped out feeling pretty awful, despite passing through Side Farm on the return a good hour up on my pb.
Had been ill for a couple of days, and despite getting out in the sun on Friday for a dozen miles, i'd only really been able to eat one full meal on Friday.
Breakfast on Saturday was again by necessity a very small affair, and i was hungrily attempting to tuck into my 'emergency' Game Pie well before reaching High Street. Again i couldn't stomach it and after a few bites i left it on the fell wall for the birds.
Plodded on, nibbling Dextrose tablets and the odd biscuit at checkpoints, but the lack of food got to me and shortly after Place Fell summit it was game over.
A shame... it's two years since doing the full course and (admittedly in more favourable conditions this year) I've obviously developed more speed and staying-power. In fact i'd barely broken into an effort in the first 30 miles due to how i felt, and was still looking reasonable for a sub 10:30 finish. After a very leisurely start i was still pretty constantly moving through the field, right up until Boredale Hause when i became more pre-occupied with having a nice lie-down...!
Well done Nick and everybody else. particularly Nigel RTS who destroyed it on a first attempt at the distance.
Oh yes... I also shared the experience of confusion around Grisedale Tarn... found myself variously right on the shore, and a short while later, apparently low down on the zig-zags onto the Helvellyn ridge. Certainly a bit of a confusing place in poor visibility...
Although I did hear someone at the Thirlmere checkpoint claiming they'd actually done two laps of Grisedale Tarn on the way! Although he also claimed that his mate had gone from Side Farm to Thirlmere via Striding Edge, which sounds quite unlikely...!
You don't seem to be having much luck with the long/ultra stuff recently, but you're performing quite well on the shorter races (e.g. Carding Mill).Quote:
Originally Posted by Travs
That is true, and very observant of you...Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonykay
I'm still holding onto the opinion that it has been a case of luck/circumstances (Haworth Hobble was going well until my knee played up, and this one was going well but i knew i couldn't maintain after going into a 2nd day without eating properly).
Although i'm not ignorant enough to not look at it as a warning sign. I've got the Coventry Way Ultra on sunday (40 miles) and am genuinely expecting to be challenging there. Then will take a serious look at my long-distance training and plans... It was only by doing that that with a large dose of self-criticism and honesty, that i managed to start improving on 'normal' fell races.
Travs, sorry you didn't complete. Well done for getting as far as you did as fast as you did. Anthony is right, I've also noticed how you've speeded up. I know you can put that to good use on the long stuff as well - that is when there's nothing going wrong to scupper you. Having said that, there will always be more discomfort and lows to overcome than on shorter races. It's just knowing when to and how to push through them to the finish. You probably already did that in LM42 2017. :)
Thank you Nick.
I know that my hardest long race - 10 Peaks Lakes - contained some awful 'bad patches' and i probably learned more from that race than any other (despite finishing relatively well in the top 25% of starters).
It is the races you struggle where you find things out about yourself.
Sorry you were unwell Travs. Nigel enjoyed the race and all felt good at the end. He has been ill all week with a pretty bad cold. I think he is just totally knackered so his immune system is shot. We are both supposed to be entering the 3 Shires 30 Ultra this Saturday but I really can't see him managing it. Think him and Beau dog will be doing the support for me instead. Hope you both recover quicklyQuote:
Originally Posted by Travs
Cheers Sue