It is absolutely an individual's right to decline the vaccine. The nation also has a right to protect its citizens. So it's a simple trade off. Decline the jab and have your NHS number revoked.
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It is absolutely an individual's right to decline the vaccine. The nation also has a right to protect its citizens. So it's a simple trade off. Decline the jab and have your NHS number revoked.
People who say that Covid is a hoax could be offered jobs as hospital porters and cleaners. This would reduce the demand for PPE: if Covid doesn't exist, they don't need any protection from it.
From what i can see it's ethnic minorities and people following strict religions that are refusing. I saw a bunch of them getting interviewed a while back; they all spoke with foreign accents not multicultural british accents, and claimed that the jab had a chip in it which tracks you. I'd be interested to know whether there's a movement amongst the hasidic jewish or sikh community to refuse vaccination, seems mostly to be an islam related trend.
There was one do gooder on TV yesterday claiming that one of the reasons for BAME's, or whatever they are being called this week, not taking up the jab is that the information is not available in their language.
I'm not buying that.
To what Wheeze says about revoking NHS number I would add stop benefits and then they would be pushing to the front of the jab queue before you could say Jack Robinson!
Anyone refusing the jab could be reminded of the history of smallpox, a nasty virus that killed 3 out of 10 who caught it. Around 1800 the first vaccine techniques were developed against it and in 1980 the last case of smallpox in the world was recorded.
The disease eradicated by worldwide vaccination.
https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html
Now then Llani. This is not about being vindictive or judgemental. But if you decline jab you decline the NHS and its duty of care to the population. Therefore your number should be revoked.
By the way, I'm not so sure starting another CV based thread is a good idea.
Sorry Witton😷. Close it down if it's an issue. Mindyou, what else is there to talk about??😂
so are you going to give me a £5k tax refund, or are we heading for an era of compulsory annual health checks where we get state sponsored vaccination cocktail, mandatory treatment for lurgies identified, hair follicle testing to check for alcohol, tobacco and narcotic consumption, BMI check with confinement to a Biggest Loser programme is not within tolerated levels......
Sounds great :/
No, I dont think so. This pandemic clearly falls outside of normal public health practise. Its akin to war. We need a wartime mentality for now which is different to peacetime. Mind you, Hancock is making a landgrab for control of PHE and NHS after the problems of the last year.
OK, so I certainly plan to have the jab when it's offered to me and would encourage everyone else to do the same.
I think the antivaxxers probably consist of groups with diverse reasons for objecting to the vacination. These may range from religious beliefs, misinformation (so many people now get their 'news' from social media), and also from people who are perhaps taking a stand against authority and imposition (if only subtle social pressure). In the latter group I'd put the bloke who posted the following on another forum:
"Words such as ''pestilence''don't help either, this is not the plague, 0.03 percent of the global poulation have died of, with, or where covid was mentioned.
If you want high vaccine take up you have to explain why with a 99.8 percent recovery rate, with an average age of death of 82, anyone under 70 need take it and why manfacturers have no liability clauses. Surely if the vulnerable take it they'll be protected.
If people could see with their own eyes and through their own experience that this was on par with the Spanish flu. you wouldn't need to coerce people, they'd be lining up.
The constant lies, exagerations, threats, fear mongering and profiteering also give a great rise to distrust. Go and look at the corporations that have made good profits out of all this, including big pharma who now have 7.8 billion potential repeat customers, new strains, more deadly, vaccine passports, and the destruction of the high street and small independent free marketers."
While I don't wholly agree with him I think he has some relevant points that has put people's backs-up.
A year ago I might have felt some agreement with elements of that. But now we have learnt more about this bastard. I certainly dont want to catch it and play Russian roulette with long covid.
I've come across a few reasons.
Two linked ones from my daughters. One is planning a second child so is advised against and the other intends to have a family and one of the caveats is affect on fertility.
They are both still in their 20s and one works in the NHS.
Neither can understand why the young would need this vaccine anyway and certainly don't feel it should be compelled.
But there's one person I spoke to recently who explained his reasons for his position as a middle aged bloke.
He had been in the forces, sent to war on the dodgy dosier and back home his family had a tragic event and he was stuck out in Iraq on a lie, unable to support his family personally.
Since then he had had a serious mistrust of the State.
To me it would seem irrational, but listening to him explain and I can see it is heartfelt and genuine and I realise I'm not in a position to make a judgement on his reasoning. It is personal to him.
I personally don't feel I need it, but will consider taking it when there is sufficient confidence in it that the suppliers are happy to accept liability.
I'm sure we used to call it post viral fatigue when I had long whatever it was back in the 80s once.
On a positive note, if we only vaccinate the over 70s and those with inherent vulnerabilities it should reduce the fatalities by around 95% and make it of little consequence.
How much would private medical insurance cost and who would make the most money from the profits?
How will this help the lowest paid people in our UK society?
The big American health insurance companies are very, very keen for the UK to adopt their system of health insurance now that we have left the European Union and can negotation a new trade agreement with the USA.
I'm not keen at all on the US system, but I quite like the look of some of those on the continent.
But the thrust of my point wasn't so much at the NHS as the State system of tax and spend.
We are born in to society, no one gets the choice to opt in or not. Our parents are told which school we should attend, a national curriculum is now in place setting out what we should study, we are told at what age we are allowed to leave, work, wed, party.....
Now we are even told who we can see, where and when.
We are told how much of our hard earned income we are allowed to keep and broadly speaking we have no say in how it is spent other than within very small margins of difference between Tory and Labour.
So if I am going to be told that I cannot access a service for which I pay tax for, I should then be able to say sorry HMRC but you are no longer going to take from my hard earned wage.
Breech of contract you might say.
I quite agree that the element of tax that goes to NHS should/would not be taken if your number was revoked.
Sorry, but long covid is so much more than post viral fatigue. Multi-organ failure and losing limbs are a wee bit nastier and not something I want to take my chances with.
I think this virus is with us for the long term, but we will learn to manage it and live with it - without it impacting our lives too much. Vaccines (probably annual, like flue) will be a big part of that. Vaccines work and people refusing them will not help the overall situation to bring down transmission in populations.
It also isn't all about death rates, which some may quote as being low, it is about keeping patients out of our hospitals so they may treat other illnesses and return to normal. That requires people not catching it in the first place, young and old.
Like Wheeze I fear the long covid symptoms most, at my age I don't have a year or two to spare sitting at home waiting to get better and worrying about permanent damage to my body.
I think people who opine about PMI should reveal their experience of it, their age, how much they are paying, what their cover is, what their previous medical history is - and whether they are paying the fees themselves rather than their employer or their own business.
PMI providers are not charities.
Also, private medical insurance in this country is not a fair comparison to what it would be like if people could opt out of the NHS. I have private health cover through my company, but it very specifically doesn't cover many aspects that we take for granted: A&E being one. If I hurt myself, will my health insurance company send an ambulance? No they won't.
For a better monetary comparison, we'd need probably need to look for overseas examples. I know US health insurance is comparatively expensive, but that's partly due to how it's evolved as an industry.
This thread went quickly off topic, didn't it?
Well, it was a bit provocative, I'll admit. By the way, its a mistake to think the vaccine was developed in 10 months. The Oxford vaccine has been in development for 10 years. The urgency of the pandemic pumped cash into the programme that allowed the vaccine to be finalised very rapidly.
Of course there can be exemptions for proper medical reasons!
There's certainly a lot of misinformation out there and you'd guess that's got a lot to do with some people's choice to not want the vaccination (not including those with valid medical reasons/concerns). Look at how many people bought the whole C-19/5G conspiracy theory, or the '£350m a week for the NHS' nonsense our Prime Minister attempted to sell us. Knowing what/who to trust in terms of the information available to us is probably harder than it's ever been.
I think for communities where English isn't a first language and/or news isn't sourced from the mainstream UK media, these problems are exacerbated. I'm not sure punitive measures like no access to NHS are the way to go though. Should smokers be treated the same for the unnecessary burden they put on the NHS? Or those who drink excessively, choose to eat terribly, etc.? For all its imperfections we're very lucky to have the NHS, and having seen it at work at the sharp end I consider 18% of my tax very good value for money.
[QUOTE=Hank;671834]. Look at how many people bought the whole C-19/5G conspiracy theory, or the '£350m a week for the NHS' {/QUOTE]
Conflating something that is bonkers and something that has happened is nonsense.
In terms of the bonkers stuff, I don't think numbers are high, and they'd be much lower if the Govt position with regards to CV didn't have so many issues that don't make sense to many.
Which ever way you go with the jab it can be considered a gamble individuals need to weigh up the odds for them selves based on known facts not hear say, and bearing in mind the people on the street are not privy to the full scientific facts and probably will not be for another 20yrs under the revelation of secrets act.
For my part I have spoken to enough people with first hand experience of the virus and read accounts by previously active people, this one for e.g. :-
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/news...rs-experience/
Which means for me at least the jab probably gives me the best odds of enjoying some more years of an active lifestyle and less chance of passing anything nasty onto somebody else but as with all things in life there are no guarantees.
Sorry If I seem to be preaching ;) not the case just putting my point of view over.
Did anyone see that very unfortunate story from the Lake District involving Patterdale Mountain Rescue...?
Two guys wild camping on Red Screes... One developed chest pains and they had to call mountain rescue... unfortunately the mountain rescue guy sustained a nasty fall on the way up and was apparently seriously injured (i don't know to what extent or if life changing/threatening injuries).
Obviously the sanity of wild camping at this time of year may be questioned, not to mention in the current circumstances... then it turns out the two wild campers were from Leicester and Liverpool.
I believe they were each fined £200 by Cumbria Police (which does seem rather lenient)
I know this subject developed into something rather heated on more than one facebook page... i think we can probably all agree that it is a rather sad and unfortunate incident from start to finish...
With respect Travs I don`t see where that post is relevant to the DECLINE THE JAB THREAD:confused: and feel it would be more appropriate in the INTERESTING thread where it would lead on from from the post I have quoted below, or even a thread of its own.
After all a thread with relevant posts has a better chance of being interesting longer, not looking for an argument just making an observation
When Mountain Rescue collude with the Police to stop people using the outdoors--at the point they are alien to me.
Go away.
[QUOTE=JohnK;671842]With respect Travs I don`t see where that post is relevant to the DECLINE THE JAB THREAD:confused: and feel it would be more appropriate in the INTERESTING thread where it would lead on from from the post I have quoted below, or even a thread of its own.
After all a thread with relevant posts has a better chance of being interesting longer, not looking for an argument just making an observation[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with you... I mistakenly thought that topic was discussed in the locked off Covid thread, so dropped it in here.
Didn't want to start a new Covid-related thread as they never seem to end well!
[QUOTE=Travs;671844]
Totally agree with you... I mistakenly thought that topic was discussed in the locked off Covid thread, so dropped it in here.
/QUOTE]
Relevant or not Travs at least it was interesting and so I say - if your thought is worthwhile then wherever you post it, viewers will come!:)
Yes, but if you attend for your vaccination you are very thoroughly grilled about allergies and vaccination reactions. The letter has a purpose...to maximise uptake. Its not personal. There is no way someone would be forced to have the vacc with a history of adverse reaction. Take it from someone who has been there!
So no-one ever takes antibiotics for a bacterial infection, just in case they might get their first adverse reaction?
I'm with JohnK on this one: there is a possibility that something might go wrong when I have the jab, but the likelihood and severity of Long Covid is far worse.
Marco, you don't expect joined up thinking do you?? Its just a computer spitting out letters because no-one has told it not too!
A cathedral is probably a better environment than a doctors surgery if you think about. But, yes, the only time I've felt uncomfortable about social distancing was when I was being jostled in the queue for the Jab at University College Hospital! Furthermore, they expected me to fill in the safety questionnaire with a grotty biro that had been handled by who many knows before me! I insisted they get me a fresh pen and the receptionist admitted that it had not occurred to them!!! Give me strength!