Walking the round

Hi . My first forum post .


Having pondered with attempting the round for many years and recently been hampered with constant calf injuries , I’m not confident I can run train without injury. So , is it possible to walk the round in 24 hour or attempt the round with limited amount of running . I am aware it has been done once,( Billy Bland?) but is it realistic

I have no issues when walking , but over the last 3 years I haven’t ran over 10k and not gone more the 3 month withought having to stop for weeks with calf pulls . I’m now 43 and having had a good innings in various endurance sports through my 20’s and 30’s The burning desire to sign off with the big one is still an ambition of mine . Thought would be welcomed

Welcome saints. Billy Bland was one of the best fellrunners ever. I’ve always thought a sub 30 walk would be a very good outing for a ‘mortal’. I can’t remember who told me but a rough split walking to running on a 24 hour BG is 6 hours running : 18 walking. I think sub-24 walking is a very big ask; huge in fact, but you never know unless you try. Good luck if you do have a go. I’d say you’d need very good conditions to stand any kind of chance and no nav issues

Having had to give up running a few years ago, I wondered if I could do a V60 Joss Naylor Lakeland Challenge in the permitted 18 hours, walking all the way. It turned out I could keep to the schedule on all of the legs (I'm a pretty fast walker).

However, the Joss is about 77km / 5200m whereas the BG is about 105km / 8200m. Extrapolating my times for the BG would've made it about 27 hours. I'd say you'd have to walk VERY fast to do a sub-24 BG.

Thanks for the reply’s . Some interesting points.
Given my situation at the moment It would most certainly be a walk . Perhaps I should leave the watch at home and set off , see what happens with no concern for time.
Interesting on the potential Run/ Walk splits , this gives my some confidence that if, between now and next year I can get back to some running , then maybe I could set out for the 24 hour target . I suspect I would most certainly need a lot of luck with condition.
Thanks

Sadly this forum is a shadow of what it used to be but for the time being there is still a huge amount of info relating to recceing, training and route choices. The 10,000 feet per week and route choice threads are good places to start

One thing is do have on my side is familiarity of the route . I have been over the route both running and walking for the past 10 yrs . In that time I’ve had two kids and recently hampered with injury hence never being able to have a crack. On two occasions I’ve been 3 and 5 months into my programme when I’ve succumb to injury. ( perineal tendinitis 12months out) and a sequestration oif a disk ( another 12 months out) since having those injury’s it’s been constant calf issues .

I’m confident that on a clear day I could go peak to peak without a map . So I have something to work with . Unfortunately I don’t have the body to get me to point to point by running at least.

I have a gander at the route options and I can see some interesting alterations than what I would normally take so found for thought .

The only major route option I was really concerned with was the accent of Scafell . I had it in my mind to use the foxes tarn route as apposed to the lords rake. I had ruled out broad stand .
Other than that my route is sorted in my mind but always open to suggestions so I will read on

Thanks

Could you "freewheel" the descents, not running per se, but just jogging or flowing downhill - that could gain you some time over walking and may actually be easier on your body than the constant resistance of holding back while walking downhill. Of course I don't know your situation so I may be wrong, but..?

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Originally Posted by GeoffB

(I'm a pretty fast walker)

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This is very true. ;)

iirc isn’t there some reference to Billy getting hurt ‘holding back’ when walking the BG. I think a degree of free wheeling would be necessary to walk round in under 24 hours

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

iirc isn’t there some reference to Billy getting hurt ‘holding back’ when walking the BG. I think a degree of free wheeling would be necessary to walk round in under 24 hours

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Yes... in FITC he says it's one of the only times he got injured, due to holding back going downhill.

Billy's walk was when he supported Gavin Bland on his Round in 1989.

There's a news piece attached to Gavin's ratification form: "Quick Stroll for Bill" from which:

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Billy Bland of Borrowdale decided to chalk up 42 Lakeland summits to match his 42 years.
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But Billy wasn't chasing records when he set out last weekend. He was just out for a "walk' - like Bob Graham - taking his 17 year old nephew Gavin along with him. Billy's walking pace is a little faster than most(!) - which is why he and Gavin were back in Keswick in 20hrs58mins, a fast time by any standard. According to watchers on the fells he never so much as broke into a jog.

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That is simply phenomenal. On both counts, a 17yr old lad and the walking time . Just out of curiosity. Has he every published his route? Was it Clockwise or anti clockwise ? Not that it would a blind bit of difference for me but I’d be interested to see it.

The freewheeling sounds a good idea something I will perhaps give a go when I’m next on the fells. Hopefully in the next few weeks

They went anti-clockwise.

There have been two sixteen year olds and one thirteen year old to have done the round. Gavin is one of four seventeen year olds.

Solid base training to become a British/English champion and hold long-term race records.

The anti clockwise is becoming more appealing to me . A seemingly less aggressive start and no assent of Yewbarrow is selling it . Each time I have done Yewbarrow I swore it will be the last hahaha. I have not yet recced the langdale leg that way so I’ll have to check that out on a . This way would still give me the option of leg 4 in the dark which is my preference slowing for a early morning start . Food for thought

I like the old cricket cliche about what to do after you’ve won the toss. Nine times out of ten you bat; the tenth you have a think about bowling, then choose to bat

Have a think about anti-clockwise then plan a clockwise round is my advice

Regarding Yewbarrow a very good fellrunner said to me go over to Wasdale early on in your preparation and make peace with the mountain. Get to know the climb and get your head round it. 50 mins (from memory a typical split for a c/w schedule), is a good length of time if you’re still in decent shape. The views on a clear day are amazing

Some very wise advice . Appreciated .

In terms of Yewbarrow , is there a significant time difference in going up the road and taking the walkers route up the nose of Yewbarrow ? From the drive in it appears less steep and a clear path .
Im aware it’s not the preferred choice so i guess that answers my question .

I’m heading up to the langdales on a Sunday so gonna try a bit of plodding / walking see how I go .

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

I like the old cricket cliche about what to do after you’ve won the toss. Nine times out of ten you bat; the tenth you have a think about bowling, then choose to bat

Have a think about anti-clockwise then plan a clockwise round is my advice

Regarding Yewbarrow a very good fellrunner said to me go over to Wasdale early on in your preparation and make peace with the mountain. Get to know the climb and get your head round it. 50 mins (from memory a typical split for a c/w schedule), is a good length of time if you’re still in decent shape. The views on a clear day are amazing

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I'm personally not adverse to an anti-clockwise round.

There's a very slim chance that the opportunity to "squeeze a round in" in September might arise. Although it is a massive 2nd on my priority list, hopefully the prospect of some races returning will knock it right off the list.

Admittedly if it did happen i'd probably do it clockwise due to the days/times in which i'll be in the Lakes, as an evening start would be preferable on this occasion. However if it was more convenient to start in the morning then i'd not be discounting an A/CW round.

I think the wealth of knowledge of the C/W makes it preferable for most.

I am certainly happy to listen to Derby Tup and those with more experience though...

Sneaking in a round in September would make up for a really frustrating year Travs. What sort of approach are you considering ie solo, lightweight with say one supporter per leg, or a more ‘social approach? I’d guess the middle one

Bob will have stats but there have been many more cw attempts than acw in the last day 15 to 20 years. The ‘knowledge’ is in that direction; the route optimised in terms of best lines etc

True enough Andy. The scores on the doors for the years 2000 to 2019 are ...

Clockwise: 1119
anticlockwise: 90

There's only been one year (2006) in that period with double figures going anticlockwise. Prior to 1988 most went anticlockwise, after 1991 most went clockwise but anticlockwise held its own until the turn of the millenium.

Success rates are a bit different (these are only for 2013 to 2019), successes/registered attempts:

Cw: 593/952 (62%)
Acw: 22/48 (46%)

Cw: 593/952 (62%)
Acw: 22/48 (46%)

Is really interesting. Thanks Bob!

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Originally Posted by Bob

True enough Andy. The scores on the doors for the years 2000 to 2019 are ...

Clockwise: 1119
anticlockwise: 90

There's only been one year (2006) in that period with double figures going anticlockwise. Prior to 1988 most went anticlockwise, after 1991 most went clockwise but anticlockwise held its own until the turn of the millenium.

Success rates are a bit different (these are only for 2013 to 2019), successes/registered attempts:

Cw: 593/952 (62%)
Acw: 22/48 (46%)

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Bob

In 1000 words* - why did it change?

(*or less if the answer is simple!).

Graham

Dunno*.

Genuinely don't know. I've tried to see if there's any correlation anywhere but there just doesn't seem to be any. DPFR started going clockwise about four years after the general change, in fact the top ten clubs all switched around then. Cumberland Fell Runners were almost all ACW until 1990 and almost all CW since then but the numbers aren't enough to cause a trend.

Interestingly the ladies stuck with ACW until around 2010, the men basically gave up on ACW in the mid 1990s, i.e. the overall "crash" was held off because of the ladies continuing with ACW.

*What do I do with the other 999? They are just clogging up my keyboard:p

Fantastic info, and thank you for providing them .

CW is the preferred option clearly ( we are all traditionalist at heart!)

I wonder why the completion rate is less so on the AC route assuming most folk drop out at wasdale on the CW and Threlkeld on the AC route ? ( only my assumption ) is halls fell seen from many mile away more mentally challenging than Yewbarrow hence the better % on CW

Don’t underestimate the effect of descending Steel Fell to Dunmail and then climbing back up the other side on an acw round. Steel fell cw isn’t that bad after a morale-boosting trot down followed by a bacon butty. My guess is a lot of acw attempts flounder long before Threlkeld

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Originally Posted by Bob

Dunno*.

Genuinely don't know. I've tried to see if there's any correlation anywhere but there just doesn't seem to be any. DPFR started going clockwise about four years after the general change, in fact the top ten clubs all switched around then. Cumberland Fell Runners were almost all ACW until 1990 and almost all CW since then but the numbers aren't enough to cause a trend.

Interestingly the ladies stuck with ACW until around 2010, the men basically gave up on ACW in the mid 1990s, i.e. the overall "crash" was held off because of the ladies continuing with ACW.

*What do I do with the other 999? They are just clogging up my keyboard:p

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Bob, I think there's a Doctorate in this for you.

You can start your Ph D thesis with the 999 words I've given you.

Graham

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Sneaking in a round in September would make up for a really frustrating year Travs. What sort of approach are you considering ie solo, lightweight with say one supporter per leg, or a more ‘social approach? I’d guess the middle one

Bob will have stats but there have been many more cw attempts than acw in the last day 15 to 20 years. The ‘knowledge’ is in that direction; the route optimised in terms of best lines etc

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When (and indeed if) I ever do a BG it has always been in my mind that it will be solo. Or at least very unofficial. I don't really have any desire to join the club, and I'd rather just pick a date and go out and do it. Although one or two people have offered to run legs with me.

I know it sounds a little disrespectful, like not being taken seriously, but if I do go for it, I'll have put in the miles, I know the vast majority of the route, although I've not necessarily been round all of it in the correct direction.

I've got a 35ish mile outing in a couple of weeks. If I hit schedule on that then a couple of weeks later have something longer planned. If that went to schedule then I'd feel completely confident to give the BG a go... However I have stuff planned for much later in the year and would have to seriously consider if a BG would jeopardise me physically for that...

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Originally Posted by Travs

When (and indeed if) I ever do a BG it has always been in my mind that it will be solo. Or at least very unofficial. I don't really have any desire to join the club, and I'd rather just pick a date and go out and do it. Although one or two people have offered to run legs with me.

I know it sounds a little disrespectful, like not being taken seriously, but if I do go for it, I'll have put in the miles, I know the vast majority of the route, although I've not necessarily been round all of it in the correct direction.

I've got a 35ish mile outing in a couple of weeks. If I hit schedule on that then a couple of weeks later have something longer planned. If that went to schedule then I'd feel completely confident to give the BG a go... However I have stuff planned for much later in the year and would have to seriously consider if a BG would jeopardise me physically for that...

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The bracken is grim enough at the moment - I hate to think what it will be like in a month's time.

Yes that is also a consideration, having been up over my head a few times in Shropshire last weekend. My route (for example on Leg 1) would certainly factor this in.

As I say its only a slim possibility and I've got other priorities and ambitions this year which take preference.

To go back to the original topic, I certainly wouldn't be walking the entire round!

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Don’t underestimate the effect of descending Steel Fell to Dunmail and then climbing back up the other side on an acw round. Steel fell cw isn’t that bad after a morale-boosting trot down followed by a bacon butty. My guess is a lot of acw attempts flounder long before Threlkeld

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It's always seemed to me that worst climbs come ACW:

Scafell from Wasdale is, for me, much worse than Yewbarrow.
As DT says, down SF and up Seat Sandal seems worse than vice versa.
Having done leg 3 ACW, I found the slog across Martcrag up to Pike o' Stickle a right bastard. And the Bowfell descent can be tricky nav-wise.
Halls Fell towards the end of the round - there's nothing like that after Yewbarrow on a CW round. And you've just had to descend Clough Head.

Bar the preferable start time and not having the big climb to Clough Head, I reckon CW is the 'easier' option (hohoho).

I never fancied descending Skiddaw right at the end

I descended Skiddaw at the end of the 10 Peaks (more like 18 hours than 24). Obviously different, but the euphoria of being so close to the finish meant I flew down it, picking up several places.

The climb up Skiddaw via the Carl Side route was another story though... oof!

I have to say , my current situation would mean 24 hours is not realistic . I suspect I’d need 2 or 3 years of run training to even have a chance. I’m like you , it would be a personal thing as apposed to joining the club irrespective . If I did have a go , I would hope a few friends would join me to celebrate the love for the fells and the love of challenges .

A final swan song for the long days out challenges and be satisfied with a plod round the park thereafter 😂

A few months since I've been on here! 1985 I went AC as everyone I'd helped or that I knew went CW and I really wanted an adventure so AC it was. The whole day went better and better until I lost one of my pacers through Langdale (we waited around, decided we had to carry on, he turned up with extra water after a detour). I dropped one of my pacers along the Dodds, only a few minutes to regroup, then a spectacular descent off Clough Head. I was driven on by looking forward to my descent off Skiddaw, it didn't disappoint....until I swallowed a fly at the bottom of Spooney Green Lane. 8am start, the Dodds in dusk, Halls Fell a dark slow walk. Best club day of the year ! Keswick AC.

Me and a friend walked legs 1,2,and 3 at the weekend. Started 8am Saturday, took 5 hours exactly to walk leg 1 and just shy of 6.5 hours to walk leg 2. We didn't really know too many fancy lines or owt so it might be possible to improve on this.
Can't really give much timing for Leg3 as we bivvied o. Thuncar Knott, it didn't take too long to get there from Dunmail, 25 mins onto Steel Fell something similar around to Calf Crag. We went upto Sarg Man before High Raise following the line of a beck bellow Ash Crags (it was dark and we'd lost any trod). I'd say it barely took 2 and half hours to walk to Thuncar Knott from Dunnail.
We had a few hours kip as didn't fancy the rough ground from here on in the dark...