I think you will find the request not to make unnessary car jouneys is to help minimise road traffic accidents which put more pressure on the NHS, seems like commonsense to me:D
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I think you will find the request not to make unnessary car jouneys is to help minimise road traffic accidents which put more pressure on the NHS, seems like commonsense to me:D
Surely not, the roads are absolutely deserted right now. It seems counterintuitive to stop people from driving a few miles to nearby countryside to run or walk and thereby reduce the number of encounters people have with each other. It runs contrary to the idea of social distancing.
Your opinion is respected and understood. Obviously there are areas of contention... My anecdote above being but one of many... Muddy Retriever above with another common bone of contention there too...
Regarding vehicle accidents... The amount of times in the last few days I've had to quickly divert off the pavement into the road to maintain the "2 metre rule" from other members of the public...!!
Since most people live in high population density where they would otherwise exercise, and they are travelling to areas of low density when travelling to exercise, therefore it increases average distancing , so I disagree with the restriction on travel to exercise.
Indeed. I am ambivalent about such as the lakes, wales and Scotland telling others to stay away, when the resources and infrastructure of those areas allow for transitory populations of five times at least in summer the population in March, and still leaving those areas far less dense than in the cities , where many folk travel from. They are not covidiots, and the NIMBY attitude Of locals is selfish in my view.
The most outrageous actions are closing parks in urban areas such as Victoria park. Anyone who has lived in a windowless box in London knows access to green places is all that keeps you sane. Provided the people are distancing whilst there. Forcing people to live in isolation without access to daylight will lead to suicides.
Hear, hear!
There's similar idiocy going on around here, but not quite as harmful since Leicestershire isn't as densely packed as inner London. The County Council have announced that all its country parks are closed. Particularly daft is that the Bradgate Trust have closed Bradgate Park: this park is huge, about the size of Cheshire's Lyme Park, and similar terrain. Charnwood Borough Council have closed the Outwoods. All with the excuse that these places were packed last weekend, i.e. before Boris's lockdown announcement.
They are treating us like children. My observations since Monday are that everyone is on their best behaviour with regard to distancing (see some of earlier posts on this thread). There are plenty of people out in the fresh air, but there's enough space for us all to keep at least 2 metres between us.
I can get into the countryside within a minute's run from my front door, but I don't begrudge those living in inner urban locations the ability to drive a few minutes to the countryside (although I would prefer them to cycle!). As Oracle says, not letting them do this is likely to lead to far worse health outcomes, domestic abuse, etc.
The first casualty of Covid-19 (and war) is truth, logic and joined up Government policy.
The Prime Minister and his advisers have clearly not identified the unintended consequences of making policy on the hoof nor explained clearly the thinking that underpins their decisions - so what hope for the local constabulary and mere citizens?
It's like traffic warden syndrome.
We've now got a reason to flex our muscles and exercise some power.
Closing parks is similar to closing golf courses.
Some people need fresh air and greenery to function on a daily basis.
Currently the media portrays a situation and the government reacts.
Common sense is needed by all but appears to be lacking more than ever in this day and age.
Stay safe.
Twas ever thus Stagger. Theres now reports of people ringing the police to ask for a neighbour to be arrested because he went out for a run twice! In East Germany, the work of the Stasi was made simple by the desire of people to inform on their fellow man.
If Derbyshire Police had shown the video of cars on the car park and then just put out one simple message such as
"some of these cars are registered to addresses outside of the local area. No one other than locals should be here. Driving more than 10 minutes to take exercise is not reasonable."
That would have been appropriate in my opinion.
AS for the comments about watching the sunset, not essential, well what if that was a couple who were returning home from a 12 hour shift in a hospital? They've just been shamed internationally for doing something perfectly legitimate.
It's a shame people can't put their efforts and criticisms into people reducing their burden on the NHS at all times, like obesity/smoking/drugs... rather than the 'crusade of the month', people who would appear to be trying to live healthily in a difficult situation.
I think people need to remember that like all other emergency workers, the Police have little choice how close they get to others during this crisis, no matter what the Daily Mail says they’re not creeping round fining people for doing two runs a day or walking the dog more than once, they’re targeting the selfish idiots who think it’s ok to sunbath or go to the beach and mingle with others etc. Mrs DTR and I have every reason to worry during this but our own emergency worker (who does the job because she wants to help people because that’s how we made her) assures us that she is being as careful as possible, surely if everyone gets behind this, then this crap may be gone sooner and we can get back to normal.
Everything is easy for him that does not have to do it.
They had no choice but to make it on the hoof.
The biggest unintended consequence of shutting down the economy is the massive recession the precedent of which we have never seen. And follow that with social unrest.
All the decisions are made by those with fixed guaranteed incomes who do not think it will affect them, indeed those whose output has little effect on economy one way or the others so they do not take economic considerations seriously : they call people and businesses who have to actually work to get paid covidiots.
In my view the seventy plus and vulnerable should have been legally forced into quarantine ( lobbing the odd loo roll and bag of porridge over their hedges) , then let the virus burn out in the population without mass destruction as quickly as possible. that way we do not trash the economy too.
No doubt the usual suspects will argue when budgets are cut,
Let’s see how already grumbling councils cope with a budget cut of 50 percent.
There will be little corporate tax revenue for years to come, the cash cow the public sector milk and insult in equal measure is on life support. And the entire public sector is funded by an ailing private sector.
There will be a tsunami of pensioners trashed by stock market collapse, forced by statute to invest in places MPs would not dream of doing themselves, as defined benefit pensioners increasingly take more than their already excessive share, paid by the same people whose income was trashed.
The imbalance cannot end well. T
Tell me. In a world where private sector and self employed are forced to accept 80 percent, why has the entire civil service and public sector not been told to accept the same?
“ we are all in it together” never seems to apply to them. I will wager few of the medical staff coming out of retirement are doing it for free.
That is similar to what I was trying to say.
Very well put Oracle and also very true.
It’s not as if there was not a precedent : there is.
Hoover and his government urged employers not to ditch staff or cut their wages at the time of the 29 crash. He also tried to keep public expenditure as high as he could. So far subsidising excess farm production that food prices crashed, contributing not easing farms crashing. So he then paid them not to produce!! (A forerunner of EU failed common ag policy, the EU always did have an IQ of 50 and learning difficulties)
There is general agreement that Hoovers wonderland view of economics contributed to far more businesses going bump and far more people unemployed ,and for a recession that was deeper and longer than if a more realistic view had been taken , to allow market forces and small state to achieve an organic recovery.
Indeed.Quote:
They've just been shamed internationally for doing something perfectly legitimate.
And the whole idea that "shaming" is a way of changing peoples behaviour is simply not true not true.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/b...ng-doesnt-work
I'm not ashamed.
In fact I'm delighted.
Having exercised my right to 1 bike ride per day and one shop visit (walked to closest shop) I have conformed.
Am I a lucky one still on full salary or was that a life choice. I would have no problem dropping to 80% to be equal.
Anyway the CAAD 9 has just had its overall.
Plus a pair of Schwalbe ZX. 9bar in each and off for my permitted exercise.
A few more miles on trail.
Saw literally no one. Not even a dog walker.
Gorgeous day.
3.3 miles, 30 minutes, loop through Witton
30min bike ride. Most traffic all week.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...o-green-spaces
No unnecessary travel in order to exercise.
It is amazing that even at this stage in the pandemic we do not know how long it lasts on surfaces, nor whether it is mainly transmitted that way or via coughing/sneezing or even exhaled breath. A 60 person choir met in Washington State before movement restrictions - 45 have symptoms, 27 have tested as positive and one has died. Apparently there was no touching/handshaking/hugging, and lots of extra soap in the washrooms. So singing seems a good way to spread it. Is heavy breathing from running that different?
I think it does have a capsule, or envelope ....
Sorry mike, I asked again: I actually misheard her. I Was not paying enough attention,
Its precisely because it has a vulnerable phospholipid envelope ie encapsulated it does degrade relatively easily, and it is vulnerable to such as alcohol. Degradation is relatively rapid: because once the lipid coating degrades the receptors don’t function. She’s still reasonably convinced the discarded tissues should be ok after 72 hours,
It’s the non encapsulated ones that are harder to destroy.
Another calf protecting 4 flat miles on the road with son. Without planning I seem to have fallen into a run/cycle on alternate days routine.
We'll see if it continues in the cold and windy snap that is on the way!
Rest day.
Think I'll have a lie in🤣
I was questioning it not contesting it.
The problem DTR is the lack of clarity , leading to police forces operating very different standards, in part because definitions are woolly at best, and the status as advice or guidance ( legally non enforceable) rather than regulations or byelaws isn’t helping.
For some the choice is a city pavement amongst other people or an empty hill, or park, 1, 3 or 5 miles away.
Some are being turned away from a park less than a km, inevitably they have to exercise near others, where a journey of a mile or three would see them alone. So what’s the goal? Social distancing? or mindless legalism? I would love to know when I become liable for a fine!
For myself I drive a couple of miles because I live in a village and the shops I am most likely to get stuff are 4 miles away, the trails I run a mile from there. Arguably 1 unnecessary mile, I combine the trips, Is that ok? Despite the fact the place e I run is 5 miles from home by car, 2-3 miles crow flies. Is it ok if I run from the shops, to avoid the unnecessary mile, but in doing so I would be amongst a lot more people.
All I want is clarity. Which is more or less impossible.
So whilst I am doing my bit, I am heartened by the fact it is guidance so at least I have a defence against a jobsworth copper if I get threatened with a fine!
Meanwhile I see some of the usual suspects on Strava and Facebook posting routes and photos from the high fells: even if they live close, is it sending the right message?
The police are using drones to keep even locals off such as curbar edge, yet are only expressing concern at Pendle, not actually turning them away.
How about not questioning it and thereby allowing the Police to Police by consent, if you’re making unnecessary journeys the you’re burning fuel, you’ll then have to go to the garage to fuel up at some point sooner than you would otherwise thereby risking others by unnecessary social contact, just do what you’re asked to do, it’s not hard, in the current weather we’re having I would normally be running twice a day if not three times, I’m not though because it’s not the right thing to do, I’m going out once, from home and steering clear of others, coming home, showering and binge watching all of the Star Wars films, not because I want to but because I have to :D
With respect DTR, I am obliged to question: can you answer it?
Is my pattern of drive to shop , and run close to there ok? Even though the far point is 5 miles?
Whilst reasonable , I have no idea whether it is considered compliant, or what else I am supposed to do?
The world is grey, not black and white for some of our situations.
So let’s say you don’t drive 2 miles or so to a local trail. If you live in a town or city and run from your house, you will be coming across far more people than you would at the petrol station from filling up slightly earlier.
You say do what you’re asked to do but that still isn’t clear to me. The latest guidance still doesn’t seem to prohibit going in your car. It says you should stay local and use open spaces near to your home. If you are only driving a couple of miles aren’t you staying locally?
I’m shopping once a week, running from home and doing nothing else, it isn’t up to me but I do know that the chasing of others who aren’t following the spirit of the ‘rules’ is causing the Police endless hassle, I do agree that what can and can’t be done hasn’t been put across clearly and needs clarifying by the government
I run 3 times a week and shop three time’s a week, because I can only buy milk one container a time.
( I can’t see how that rule helps)
I run when I shop. I’ve also been shopping for neighbours on lock down. I drive one extra mile to run when already in the car for shopping.
I agree there it’s hard with restrictions on what you can buy, three of us in the house, all vegetarians, we drink enough milk to warrant having our own cow :D but we’re having to manage, I noticed that one of the local farms had put a sign up on the footpath through their land saying footpath closed and people should respect this, the Police are taking the pragmatic approach and are only using the heavy hand if people don’t listen. I do dread to think what would happen if we had another major Foot and Mouth outbreak, the Lake District is a very different place now to what it was 20 years ago with far greater visitor numbers, and as recent events have shown, most who would give a toss if we had an outbreak.
One of the ironies of foot and mouth is how farmers would rant at ramblers to obey the code, and blame them, whilst they were the main cause of propagation with hundreds of illegal animal movements at night. So unless farmers have changed their ways, the ramblers would not make a jot of differences.
Ps we are veggies, and normally use milk by the gallon.
We have been on almond milk for 2 year and its helped my cholesterol.
Today I have no reason to leave my home to will be stopping in all day.
Making stew for the freezer to limit shopping trips.
Mrs DTR has Almond milk, not really a fan but probably just need to try a bit harder to like it :)
I drink raw jersey milk that I pick up from a farm 4 miles away. I very rarely made a special journey but usually picked it up either on the way to or returning from taking my son to his swimming sessions in Buxton.
Those have obviously stopped.
On such visits I occasionally chatted to a Sikh bloke who made weekly visits from Derby and picked up a carload of the stuff for his family and friends, a round trip of about 60 miles.
I've no idea if he is still going.
Am I allowed to divert a few miles to go there on the way from my Aldi shop?
I'd like to continue to support the farmer, and as I understand it, due to the status of raw milk it cannot be sold in shops and only from the farm gate.