M'thon trainin, on the fells?

[TheReverand]

I think you r spot on there iain, did 2hours on the road the other day and I was proper beat up afterwards, due to having not much road running in my legs of late, think im gonna have to add a few more long road runs to my training to 'condition' my legs

[Dick]

The advice that I got from the road running guys when I did the GNR in 2006 was to switch from off road to road in the couple of months leading up to the event. Basically to get your body used to covering the distance on tarmac, so to speak.

[Runningfox]

I didn't start running until I was 54 so have done most of my running over fields and fells to protect my old legs. Nearly all my marathon training was done off-road, my long runs being from Hebden to the top of Great Whernside and back, around 18 miles. Speedwork was in the form of 10K races and X-Country races with a couple of road races of 10 miles and a 14 miles (Dentdale Run) nearer the time of the marathon. I only ran on tarmac when racing.
It proved ideal training for me and certainly didn't mash my legs up in London although I was 60 years old by then. A week after London I was able to run the 3 Peaks with no problems, and was flying in both races.
Cheers!

[bestathlete]

Aiming for 2:45 as you are, I would suggest you need to base your training primarily on tarmac. A fell race of 5-8 miles on a Saturday is ideal if doing long slow run on a Sunday though - so there is scope to enjoy the fells as you pound the black stuff most other days.

I am at a very similar level (aiming for sub 2:45 in London) and have ran all of my long runs since xmas on road. I do often go offroad for my easy days and this weekend I am doing 22miles up the fells. I expect to be on the fells for at least 3-4 hrs and dont expect it to tire me beyond the next day, whereas last weekend I ran 26miles in sub 3hrs on road and was (still am) very heavy legged a few days later. However, I get immense confidence from completing known distances on road within my target times.

There is something to be said for fellrunning in a marathon schedule - but ideally as a diversion for the mind and a rest for a battered body and legs amidst a tough road based routine.

[Brotherton Lad]

Historically, I've been a road runner who's used off-road running for stamina work and relaxation (fell running is just much more fun and low key than road work). I did about 30 road marathons with a PB of 2:30 and 12 others under 2:40.
Off-road running will give you lots of endurance background and will usually avoid the injuries that high mileage road running can induce. You'll also recover more quickly. What you won't get is road speed or used to pounding tarmac. So, I'd say you'll need quite a few fast ten milers and half marathons in your preparation and say 2 or 3 20 mile training runs on the road to convert your off road stamina into a sustainable marathon pace. Your target of 2:45 implies a mile pace of about 6:20. You won't get there from bimbling over the fells at 8 or 9 mins a mile without specific fast road training.
Good luck.
PS. You will probably still feel the effects of the 3 Peaks at Edinburgh. I only once ever raced 2 marathons within 4 weeks of each other and said I'd never do it again. Suppose it depends if you're racing the 3 Peaks or using it as a long training run.

[Runningfox]

I only once ever raced 2 marathons within 4 weeks of each other and said I'd never do it again. Suppose it depends if you're racing the 3 Peaks or using it as a long training run.

As you'll see from my previous post I ran the London Marathon and 3 Peaks with only one week in between, having done all my training on the fells. I was RACING both, and won the MV60 category in both, not using one as a training run. Compared with running the fells the roads of London were a doddle. The fells developed strength and stamina to the extent that London took nothing out of my legs at all. But the Peaks did. I don't think I could have run London quite so fast if I'd run the Peaks first.
Cheers!

[Brotherton Lad]

Congratulations.
I can only speak from my own experiences, though I've done some marathon coaching too.
What times did you do, by the way? Was it 2005?

[Runningfox]

Congratulations.
I can only speak from my own experiences, though I've done some marathon coaching too. What times did you do, by the way? Was it 2005?

It was in 1993 (I'm coming up 78 now, but still running) and my times were nowhere near as good as yours: 2.54.18 for London and 4.09.27 for the Peaks.
I tried to repeat the double in 1995, winning London in 2.53.04 but could only come second (to the incredible Laurence Sullivan) in the Peaks in 3.50.44
Again, for this second attempt at the double, all my training was done off-road, mainly on the fells, only running on tarmac for preliminary sharpening races, mainly 10K's to gain a higher cruising speed. My old legs have never liked too much tarmac though I appreciate you young 'uns are probably less likely to get injured on it.

[Brotherton Lad]

Very impressive stuff. Wonder what you'd have done if you'd started 35 years earlier. What line of work or past-times were you in before (cycling?).

I'd hope you'd agree though, that yours is a pretty exceptional and unorthodox approach. And I see you used 10km road races as 'sharpeners'.
Better marathon runners than I used to emphasise the need to train for a fast 10 mile road time to carry over into the marathon.

Funnily enough I hit my peak betwen 1984 and 1992, so we probably crossed paths somewhere.

[Brotherton Lad]

Actually on second thoughts, and this will make you laugh, I ran my first marathon at Harlow in 1980 aged 22. I'd been running cross country for 18 months only (medically excused sport at school because of a hole in the heart) and had never run more than 10 miles in my life in racing or training. I sent off my 30p cheque and started with a couple of blokes at a steady pace. I finished in 2:53.
Don't do this at home, dear reader.

PS. I'm doing my first PPP next month and would be very happy with anything near 4 hours.