Anti-clockwise Bgr

[Ronin]

Hi Guys
A quick question, on an anti-clockwise round whats the best descent off Scafell? is it still Broad Stand? Lords Rake? (praying as you pass the boulder) or Foxes Tarn?

Ive climbed Broad Stand numerous times, clockwise. In Feb this year I did a recce of leg 2 and 3 with a lot of snow on the ground so took advice and dropped down to foxes tarn.

What do you think?

[Bob]

On clockwise rounds that I've supported, we didn't do Lords Rake all the way but cut across the West Wall Traverse to finish up Deep Gill. This saves quite a bit of descent and reascent. I wouldn't like to do it in reverse though as it is a bit loose near the top and is very hands on.

If things are dry then I'd prefer Broad Stand but Foxes Tarn is probably the surest bet. You don't have to go all the way to the bottom of the gully as there's a traverse beneath the East Buttress used by climbers just below the level of the tarn.

Bob

[andy k]

General opinion favours Foxes Tarn for anticlockwise.

reasoning
descent to BS is slow whatever the weather (mostly bare rock and alot of big steps and careful manoevers required).
In the wet reaching BS and BS itself is a bad idea and will be very slow
Therefore choose FT
Its safe whatever the weather. If you take the high climbers trod back across its probably not much slower than BS even in good weather.
It gives you certainty.

Last summer when I was supporting an ACW round there was a small cairn marking the start of the trod. It starts a short way below the tarn, just after the slope starts to fall away to the main gyll.

[GeoffB]

The climbers' trod has got to be quicker. What if you get down to bottom (almost) of Broad Stand and discover 30 people all waiting to come up? Not easy just to barge past them all. At least on a CW round if you find a queue you can pick one of the alternatives.

[Bob]

The climbers' trod has got to be quicker. What if you get down to bottom (almost) of Broad Stand and discover 30 people all waiting to come up? Not easy just to barge past them all. At least on a CW round if you find a queue you can pick one of the alternatives.

I think that current stats show about 7:1 in favour of going clockwise so it's a definite possibility

If your support party has a rope then there is a means of avoiding the lower part of Broad Stand but you do need to know how to abseil and it may be more trouble and time consuming than it's worth. From memory you need about 100ft of rope doubled up as the abseil is about 40 -50ft

Note that there are two climbers' trods, one tight up under the East Buttress and one at the Foxes Tarn level. It's the latter that you need - getting down off the upper one makes Broad Stand feel like a stroll

[Baggins]

Note that there are two climbers' trods, one tight up under the East Buttress and one at the Foxes Tarn level. It's the latter that you need - getting down off the upper one makes Broad Stand feel like a stroll

I thought the lower trod was getting a bit "interesting" just before you get to the foxes tarn path (or getting on to it if coming from foxes tarn)
The grass was peeling away on a very short section with sloping rock underneath, it made you think

The upper traverse would be hard to find coming in from above. I've gone up it a few times, first time in bone dry conditions thought yes this is the way, very fast and the section you had to climb was easier that Broad Stand (the result from a fall would be similar mind) the next time when it was wet found the climb impossible and had to reverse back down steep wet grass to the lower traverse, I still have flashbacks even now

[RobW]

Hi Guys
A quick question, on an anti-clockwise round whats the best descent off Scafell? is it still Broad Stand? Lords Rake? (praying as you pass the boulder) or Foxes Tarn?

I went anticlockwise via Foxes Tarn. The problem was doing the Northern Fells last - nearly killed me .

[Marvin]

General opinion favours Foxes Tarn for anticlockwise.

reasoning
descent to BS is slow whatever the weather (mostly bare rock and alot of big steps and careful manoevers required).
In the wet reaching BS and BS itself is a bad idea and will be very slow
Therefore choose FT
Its safe whatever the weather. If you take the high climbers trod back across its probably not much slower than BS even in good weather.
It gives you certainty.

Last summer when I was supporting an ACW round there was a small cairn marking the start of the trod. It starts a short way below the tarn, just after the slope starts to fall away to the main gyll.

I think the certainty is the key thing. When Daz H and I did our rounds we thought we were doing the right thing going up BS (clockwise round), but the cloud was low and everything was very wet. The consequence was that we lost about 30 minutes struggling up BS (which had been roped for us) and then finding the route to the top of Scafell. We just wished we'd gone via Foxes Tarn as it really put the pressure on us to claw back time on Leg 4.

[IWCharters]

I have been down by Foxes Tarn more than once for all the reasons stated above plus if Broad Stand is your choice you also need to be sure your support team are happy with it. If there are any doubts they will prey on your mind from the Moot Hall until you finally get there and that will not help one bit.

[ydt]

Fresh back from a recce of foxes tarn, never having been there before - I always did Broad Stand and Lord's Rake a couple of times. I tried both options, the lower gully and the climbers traverse and was impressed with the latter. Apart from some exposure, that traverse is quick and has half the reascent of the gully. Although it was fairly dry today, I cannot see how it can be very difficult in the wet. The few scrambly steps have good foot- and hand-holds.
Yiannis