BG Route to be flagged?

[Derby Tup]

I couldn`t Agree more, but iI fear it is to late, also given the Current Penchant for BGR runners to go in large partys rather than an individual with maybe a Sherpa/Pacer on the sections then waymarking will not be Necessary as the whole route will just become obvious due to (dare iI say it Errosion), in fact many parts of the route are already quite noticeable underfoot.

In fact when I speak to Non runners about Fellrunning it is suprising how often I am asked by them whether I have done the BGR, in much the same way as when speaking to non runners about marathons then the first question is Have you done London Marathon, so on that Basis it appears that the BGR is becoming the London Marathon of the fells which IMO is a shame.



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Do the folk who ask you if you've done the BGR know you enjoy the long challenge-type events prior to asking if you've done the round John?

Having spent a spring and summer training on the fells it's interesting that the BGR is very much on the radar in Lakeland. This seems a local thing up there. If you're running in the Peak, Dales or Pennines you're much less likely to be asked if you've done a BG. It's actually one of the many good things about training for a round. You become surrounded by it and cannot help becoming absorbed into it

40,000 people a year 'run' the London marathon. Roughly 1500 have done a BG, ever. I suspect it'll not become just something to be ticked as it's just too hard

[JohnK]

Both great reply`s it is a certainty that a gps is a far more enviromentally sound option than dozens of running shoe`s going over the same routes ad infinitum, and yes the gps does nothing to lessen the physical challenge of running the route, in fact it should increase the challenge as the BGR contender will maybe have to carry something for themselves and will definitly have to do do thinking for themselves rather than relying on others, however I digress again, So NO THE BGR route SHOULD NOT BE WAYMARKED not lest of all because it is not neccessary.

[sore legs]

40,000 people a year 'run' the London marathon. Roughly 1500 have done a BG, ever. I suspect it'll not become just something to be ticked as it's just too hard

Up to 2008 only approx 2700 people had successfully completed ascents on Everest - perhaps the BG is only a little easier ..?? - But then again, many of the routes up Everest are clearly marked ! :wink:

[SpeedMaestro]

Bob

Some people just don't have the time to learn the course thoroughly though. It might be better to learn the route but some aren't lucky enough to be able to free up time to go gallivanting around the lake district for days at a time. What i took isssue with most was you an another poster suggesting that the reflective poles should have been dismantled. What if they were doing it so they could know they had done it, didn't plan on applying for BG membership and just wanted as quick a time as possible.

The point a previous poster made was also very valid. How is doing it with a pacer who leads the whole way any more of an achievement than laying down a few reflective pole?

The challenge of the BG round is to complete it. As long as you've run the course then in my opinion you have completed it. I remember a chapter from the book 'Feet in the clouds'. I think it was Kenny Stuart (but i may be mistaken) who after one of his records was broken felt that science had beaten his record, not a runner. The runner who beat it though, still had to be an exceptional runner. The same applies for the BG round, each person who does it may have a different way of doing it but each has to have the will and the skill to do it in the first place.

[JohnK]

I think it is fair to say that not all the folk that ask me the quetion know my passion for the longer events but on learning where I live and the type of event`s I enjoy that is when the question comes up, as you point out many become absorbed in the BGR therefore movining Primarily in the circles of those in the know about the BGR which ultimately leads to the impression that it IS VERY MUCH ON THE RADAR IN LAKELAND but TBH living here I find i do not have to move far away from running circles to find that is not the case, rather that the BGR is something that they have heard of but know nothing about , in much the same way as London Marathon is to non runners.

I am not trying to take anything away from the BGR it is what it is to everybody that is interested in it no matter how, when or whatever way they go about achieving it, but as with all things that become popular the magic and mystery that was the early attraction become undermined and lost.

There Was a Time when a Marathon was regarded as too Hard by many but turn the clock on a decade or two and now as you rightly point out 40,000 take part in the London Marathon and many of them in Fancy dress.

I wonder how many Footfalls on the BGR route are made each year, regardless of recognised completions

Do the folk who ask you if you've done the BGR know you enjoy the long challenge-type events prior to asking if you've done the round John?

Having spent a spring and summer training on the fells it's interesting that the BGR is very much on the radar in Lakeland. This seems a local thing up there. If you're running in the Peak, Dales or Pennines you're much less likely to be asked if you've done a BG. It's actually one of the many good things about training for a round. You become surrounded by it and cannot help becoming absorbed into it

40,000 people a year 'run' the London marathon. Roughly 1500 have done a BG, ever. I suspect it'll not become just something to be ticked as it's just too hard

[Duncan R]

I'd like to thank Maestro for opening this up a bit & challenging the grumpy old man in me. When I first read it I was really shocked but, then, as I read more & thought more I certainly think he has a valid point. What are pacers but temporary direction indicators/motivators for many. As has been said, the huge club outings provide enormmous support, yet it doesnt demean their round. A solo, unsupported attempt is probably the purist way, but not recognised by the club.

And I agree with JohnK, its already a ticking exercise, and who these days hasnt used Bobs website for info, in my day we had to do our timings by... blah blah blah. Its the nature of information access, publicity, better transport etc etc that greater awareness of it exists.

I thought Bobs response was patronising, I did chuckle as I thought that anyone who spoke to him like that 30 yrs ago in the Golden Rule wouldve been offered outside for some 'feedback'..but I admire maestros post as stimulating, energising, bold & honest, good qualities. I also know Bob is very attached to, and sensitive to, the history and wonderful tradition of the round, and has contributed himself significantly to its popularity & the success of many a contender.

The BGR is a particular route in the hills and I would deplore any 'permanent' route indicators, but everyones round is very personal, there is not a standard round, route choices can vary (albeit slightly), weather obviously varies, support varies etc. I know people who done it solo but supported, as a pair unsupported (the day after racing Wasdale) & walked it and camped, none applying for certification.

I didnt use markers/walking poles/gps/web info/rope on BS/even trods 26 yrs ago, but I dont compare my round with anyone elses, because each is different & unique(in my eyes).

I personally wouldnt use flags if I were doing it now, because it would take something away from the experience that I'm looking for, but I do recognise if someone wants to, well, fine, they have that right, as long as it doesnt damage the environment in any way and are gone immediately after like some marked fell races or a broad stand rope. You wont get a certificate, fair enough, and if you do want one, well, comply with the rules.

[Derby Tup]

I think it is fair to say that not all the folk that ask me the quetion know my passion for the longer events but on learning where I live and the type of event`s I enjoy that is when the question comes up, as you point out many become absorbed in the BGR therefore movining Primarily in the circles of those in the know about the BGR which ultimately leads to the impression that it IS VERY MUCH ON THE RADAR IN LAKELAND but TBH living here I find i do not have to move far away from running circles to find that is not the case.

I am not trying to take anything away from the BGR it is what it is to everybody that is interested in it no matter how, when or whatever way they go about achieving it, but as with all things that become popular the magic and mystery that was the early attraction become undermined and lost.

There Was a Time when a Marathon was regarded as too Hard by many but turn the clock on a decade or two and now as you rightly point out 40,000 take part in the London Marathon and many of them in Fancy dress.

I wonder how many Footfalls on the BGR route are made each year, regardless of recognised completions

John, I didn't think for a second you were taking anything away from the BGR and I know what you mean about a loss of magic and mystery. It's important that the BG Club uphold the traditional values of the round and that includes not recognising 'rounds' completed with the add of luminous sticks or other similar aids

[Joe]

If I'd come across reflective poles I'd have removed them.

If it was considered acceptable then the fashion would soon proliferate, people would forget to remove them (they do), then people would think it acceptable not to remove them, then markings would become permanent.

Believe me, we're only one step away from paint spots marking the routes up Scafell Pike, Ben Nevis and Snowdon.

[JohnK]

By the way I happily remove Rubbish from the fells i.e. anything that is alien to the enviroment

[PlumBum]

Just spent a while going through these posts. Why bother to do the BOB GRAHAM if you are not interested in being part of the fraternity that surrounds it. Go set up your own route somewhere and put your own rules and regulations, however limited, to it so others in the future can flaunt them. I believe anyone doing the BG should respect the memory of the man himself and the club that has evolved from it. If you or anyone wants to do the route but not be recognised as having done it, go do it and keep your mouth shut, we who respect the ethos of it don't want to know.