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Thread: BG Route to be flagged?

  1. #11
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    An interesting viewpoint.
    An contentious first post on here. You wouldn't happen to be associated with said attempt would you?

    There may be a clue in the ID of one of the posters that you refer to.

    I suggested that GPS as useful. In what way is an electronic handheld device worse than physical manipulation of the route? It's an interesting argument. Just to note that I didn't use a GPS unit on my round nor have I used one when supporting. What next? No map or compass?
    Last edited by Bob; 18-07-2010 at 07:17 PM.
    Bob

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    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  2. #12
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    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    No i would not, as my profile suggest I'm a junior member (17) and as my name suggests I'm into much shorter events (track and short fell) . It may be a contenious first post, I've been a long time reader but felt that I had to sign up to have a say on the people who thought that it would have been a good idea to ruins someones attempt.

    If it is just reflective markers, which are removed after the attempt then surely it isn't a problem. I never claimed that GPS shouldn't be used, i pointed out that by applying the logic of an earlier poster who claimed it wasn't in the ethos of the round, then surely GPS weren't either. Not my opinion just trying to understand where they are coming from. In the same way I'm not suggesting you shouldn't use a GPS. I'm not advocating that map and compass shouldn't be used either.

    My main point was, if i ever decided to attempt the BG and i marked it with stones or reflective markers. Then some pretentious idiot took it upon themselves to decide that they 'didn't think it was within the ethos' I would assure that their attempt of the BG was ruined as well
    Last edited by SpeedMaestro; 18-07-2010 at 07:44 PM.

  3. #13
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    The reflective markers I referred to from 2004 were there for some time (unless the person they were there for happened to be attempting the round on the same two weekends that I was!).

    The point is - there is enough information available about the route for any physical modification to it, for however short a period, to be valid. The path under discussion, and it is a path not a vague sheep trod, is visible from the summit of Great Calva - I pointed it out to a fell walker earlier this year, we could trace it from the fence near the summit of Skiddaw for nearly two miles until it disappeared from view beneath the slope above which we were sitting. It really is that obvious.

    It's not a case of "I didn't have this bit of kit when I did the round x years ago so no current contender should se it", things move on. Maps and compasses are much better these days than when Bob Graham did the round, GPS is just another tool. (Note that I'm no luddite - I work in the technology business).

    Every runner on the round changes it slightly with erosion - see the comment above about the path - but deliberately modifying the round isn't really part of "the game". Have a look at the guidance notes on the BGR club website, they mention that those attempting the round should have a good background on the fells. Relying on reflectve poles on a visible path doesn't sit well with that "ethos" whether or not they are removed after the event.
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  4. #14
    Senior Member DaveSwift's Avatar
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    Talking Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    When i attempt my BG 30th July i will not be marking the route in any way. Instead i will use the many hours of experience i have gained while training this summer, running the route and on occasion getting lost in the clag, i think i'm now ready, i can navigate the whole route by map and compass - when i started i could barely find my way round my local trails. I do carry a GPS for safety.

    My reason for investing so many hours of reccie's and training is that i believe in the spirit of the BG, its not just about being able to do the miles on the day. I am also lucky enough to have the help of some experienced fell runners who know the route, so on the day i won't need to know, but I have still invested the time so that i can - if needed - navigate the whole route.

    Perhaps i'm lucky because i've had the right guidance from my club mates, some people do not have this benefit.

    In my opinion, marking the route is as good as cheating, if you are not willing to put the effort in then don't attempt the BG and most of all - don't expect your attempt to be recognised. IN MY OPINION.

    Dave Swift

  5. #15
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    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    Obviously it is not acceptable for them to not be removed afterwards, but if they are i do not see the problem with it.

    There may be a lot of information about, but at night, when you're feeling weary, people aren't as observant and if they feel that this will give them an advantage then that is their choice. How anyone feels that they should be able to make a choice about how others complete the round is beyond me. Surely as long as all 42 peaks are visited and it is all done on foot then it is completed.

    I fail to see how GPS is perfectly acceptable within the ethos yet a reflective pole that is removed after is not.

    "they mention that those attempting the round should have a good background on the fells"
    Don't really see how this is relevant to having poles in the ground. I have good fell experience, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the poles. If anyone asked if they were my poles and started being funny with me about it saying it wasn't within the ethos I'd have a good mind hit them. When you're out on a run you don't want somebody getting all up in your face telling you what you can and can't do. As far as I would be concerned I would have completed the round, I would not bother about some stupid certificate to ratify that i had done it. If someone told me I was not eligible for the certificate for using reflective poles then it would mean nothing to me. Since when has fell running been about men who sit in a building writing out certificates who think they have the authority to write off somebodies attempt.

    Surely the 'ethos' of the sport is to get from one place to another sometimes via a certain point as quickly as possible, using anything that gains you an advantage. I take painkillers and energy drinks every time I race, should my races be void?

  6. #16
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    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    Posted my post before i saw yours dave.

    Don't get me wrong I have full respect for anyone that is willing to do it with no markings and pure hard work. My issue is with people thinking that they can tell people it is not a valid attempt for using reflective posts. You do the Bob Graham round in whichever way you feel comfortable. If you want to come home and say you did it with no markers you deserve a pat on the back. I just don't think you can take it away from the people who used all the advantages they can get. I just feel in this thread some people aren't respecting what others think the spirit of the Bob Graham is about. You feel that doing it without markings is within the spirit. Others may feel that using them is in the spirit. I guess it's down to your own interpration at the end of the day.

    Agree completly with your point about being lucky. Some may not have either the time orthe knowledgable team mates to help them along.

    I disagree about your last line, but that's your opinion. Like i said to Bob, me taking energy drinks and painkillers (despite having no pain beforehand) could be seen as cheating to some.

    Sorry i forgot to add, good luck in your attempt.

  7. #17

    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    Spot on Dave.
    Speed maestro - whether you like it or not, the idea of the 'spirit' or the 'ethos' of the Bob Graham Round is an intrinsic part of the challenge. The vast majority of those who have completed it will have got a huge sense of achievement by doing it 'properly'. I hope the opinions expressed by yourself are not indicative of the way the round will be approached in the future.

  8. #18
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    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    To me the challenege is not to do with the 'spirit' and that is not part of the challenge. If/When I approach the Bob Graham round I plan on doing it as quickly as possible. I would take minimal rest and use every advantageous tactic i could to gain me the extra minute, if this involved reflective poles then so be it. To answer your question, Yes this would be exactly how i would approach it. I am not doing it as a memory of Bob Graham, I am doing it for personal achievement.

  9. #19
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    When in a hole- stop digging!

    We know you are young and so don't have the experience to temper your arguments, that will come with time. If and when you come to try the BGR then you will realise and understand what is being said to you here. You should try to rise to a challenge rather than bring it down to your level.
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  10. #20
    Master and MR
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    Re: BG Route to be flagged?

    serve your time
    help on recces
    learn to navigate with a map and compass
    put the time in
    pick your day
    if its very claggy maybe take a gps if your still unsure
    enjoy it
    please dont mark the route anymore than it already is.

    and if your succesfull, pass your knowledge on for the next, and help them two.
    then get a moot hall tattoo ( only kidding)

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