Border Collie Pup

[IainR]

So for me at least until the dog homes are empty, then there is really is no need to buy or breed puppys, much better to make a donation to a home and give a living creature a fair chance at life rather than turning your back and condeming often a very good animal to an early death.
.

Same here. We've always rescued pups, but the last one, probably the most troublesome was an adult, she was older than we wanted, scraggily, quite ugly looking, but as soon as we walked in she was jumping and trying to get her paws through the cage, then was trying to cling on to us. there's only a few times I've managed to visit a rescue centre and not rehome a dog. She's a great dog now, still not the prettiest of things, still needy. But its a great feeling to see her running out on the hill, or lay sleeping at the end of a long day out. I do like having pups and watching them develop, but I'd like to keep taking in the odd adult dogs too, because their chance of being picked up is so low. She's so loyal now, it's like she knows we took her in and is lucky to be here, whilst the one we had from a pup thinks we're lucky to have her..even the dog psych reckons she has 'high expectations of life and gets annoyed if they aren't fulfilled'..

[philt1]

She has now gone to a new home..or should i say will be on the 21st August.

Cant quite beleive the response i have had to my little old ad.. its been a good read

[Longdogs]

I think this comes back the central argument of whether we consider it our responsibility or not. You do. Some of us don't. I probably do if it's easy and fits in with me.

I'm not trying to pick holes in your argument. But I'm interested by this figure "hundreds of thousands". Are there any statistics on dogs put down in the UK? Do vets need to feed into some sort of database? Also, I guess the reason behind the majority of dogs being put down is to prevent further suffering. In your experience, what's the proportion of healthy animals that make up the total number?

You can find all the stats through the web by easy searches. Most of the 7day pound dogs are healthy- i'd guess at 95% based on working in a dogs home. You have to account for 7d poundies, greyhound disposal, private euths, dog home ones etc. Difficult to get exact no except for county council.

[Longdogs]

Longdogs,

Fair enough. I would always, and have on this thread, advocate recsue dogs first. Personally, it would be rescue or nothing. However, I'm simply pointing out that everybody has different criteria and as long as there is sound reasoning, judgement, research and consideration, I can understand why some people may opt for the alternative. Al and Nikalas have presented what I consider to be well thought out scenarios based on experience and reason. Just because I might not do the same as them does not mean that I do not respect their views. And Noel presents an equally considered hypothetical situation.

Although I don't work on the 'front line'. I can imagine how harrowing it must be. Personal circumstances dictate that we can only really manage one dog at a time but if our situation was different I dare say we'd have a house full of rescue hounds. Even so, we've been on the verge of taking on a 'rescue' Collie twice (the same one) but had to accept that we realistically cannot.

I can certainly also understand why people take this option, i hear the same reasons every day. I just disagree, and i don't believe the reasons given are rational at all, though of course i respect anyone's right to believe in them.

[Longdogs]

I just don't think it's as simple a that and I don't think our wants of a dog were arbitrary narrow specifications. One of our overriding considerations was that the dog would be good with children. We haven't got any but, we've got god children and numerous friends have kids who are in and out of our house. Many of those kids aren't use to dogs so, having a dog that can be trusted even with non dog friendly kids, is a must. One bite, and it's the dog that gets put down. Moses has always been super gentle with children and babies. Yes, lots of this is due to his upbringing but the breed is also well known for it. Both Otso's parents are also great with kids so, as I said before, we loaded the dice in our favour. Compare this to a friend of ours who's re-homed lurcher has bitten both of their children and me when I walked it once drawing blood despite coming from a "family home". Only one example I know, but my wife and I just didn't want to take the risk.

I can't speak for other breeds but know for a fact that every Lapphund pup bred will have a waiting list for it and unless, something unforeseen happens as in Moses' case, will never find itself in a Rescue Home. That said, the breed rescue society would take it and/or the breeder be responsible for re-homing and it'd be snapped up as in the case of a 12 year old recently who's owner had died. There are some absolute horrors in pedigree dog breeding, King Charles Cavs and Syringomyelia, Rhodesian Ridgebacks and Spinabifida and GSD's and hip problems spring to mind, but many breeds are healthy, non-showy and still bred to be functional dogs. If that breed happens to be right for you and you will give that dog and happy and healthy life then that's a dog that'll never end up in a Rescue Home. The KC and Breed Societies are under great pressure to put their houses in order and desperately need to but it's largely not KC registered dogs that are filling up Rescue Homes.

The problem lies with unregulated, irresponsible or accidental breeding and would be simply solved by a national canine register. Every dog owner should have to prove themselves fit to own a dog (I like the idea of an exam or assessment), apply for and pay for a license, get the dog microchipped and, unless they're a registered and approved breeder, be obliged to have the dog neutered. If someone is found to have an unregistered dog, then they would be prosecuted. Breeders should have to apply for a licence for every litter and, prior to the mating, be able to show they have a number of prospective owners lined up.

I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this one Longdogs but I know from previous correspondence that we do agree on the importance of responsible dog ownership and that something has to be done about the thousands of dogs that do end up without homes.

Sorry, but in my experience alot of what you say isn't true. One story about a rehomed dog that bit versus a bought puppy that didn't is not representative.

What is a dog breed? It's just a manufactured, patented gene pool, rubber-stamped by some bow-tied idiot in London. There is no more need to manufacture any given breed to 'protect' it than there is to keep reproducing last year's i-phone. It's no more than a collection of characteristics that someone once thought would be useful or appealing. In this sense it is entirely arbitrary. If someone said, instead of saying i want breed X, said i want a dog with a combination of characteristics a,b and c (e.g. coat colour, size, herding, temperament etc) , they could have a hundred to choose from in dogs homes by the end of the day. Professionally assessed they would have as much likelihood of getting what they wanted as by putting their name on a waiting list for whatever breed. Every Lapphund may have a home for life, but every one of those homes could get a homeless dog instead. The 'we know what we're getting' argument is widespread, but it doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.

Health testing and scoring breeding stock diverts attention the real problem- way too many dogs. Regardless of the piece of paper they come with, they are either a dog, or not a dog. Why are people trying to make sick breeds more healthy by making more, maybe slightly less sickly products, and the other side of town someone is making healthy dogs more dead?

[mr brightside]

My limited experience of them is of a gentle, playful mindset, and not really the supposed hardcases that I think spurs young lads into getting them as an 'accessory'

A friend of mine 'rescued' one out of a scrap yard that was badly malnutritioned, it was living with a bunch of Rotties that were just nicking all the grub, why he did it i don't know but now he's ended up with what is essentially a four legged liability. Have you ever seen Roman Polanski's Oliver Twist? remember Bill Sykes' dog Bullseye? It's about the same size as that and all it knows is violence. It was living in his lock up for ages and frequently got off it's restraint and just went for the nearest person, it lives in the back of his van now and last i heard it had absconded again and attacked a cow; it was apparently hanging off the cow's face. He won't give it up because he knows it'll only be put down, i've told him if it gets hold of a kid his life will never be the same for many reasons but he's too stubborn to do what needs to be done. Not having a dig Sim, just a flipside for the debate.

[noel]

She has now gone to a new home..or should i say will be on the 21st August.

Cant quite beleive the response i have had to my little old ad.. its been a good read

Yes, I think we hijacked the thread somewhat. I'm pleased you found a home for her.

[simgreen78]

A friend of mine 'rescued' one out of a scrap yard that was badly malnutritioned, it was living with a bunch of Rotties that were just nicking all the grub, why he did it i don't know but now he's ended up with what is essentially a four legged liability. Have you ever seen Roman Polanski's Oliver Twist? remember Bill Sykes' dog Bullseye? It's about the same size as that and all it knows is violence. It was living in his lock up for ages and frequently got off it's restraint and just went for the nearest person, it lives in the back of his van now and last i heard it had absconded again and attacked a cow; it was apparently hanging off the cow's face. He won't give it up because he knows it'll only be put down, i've told him if it gets hold of a kid his life will never be the same for many reasons but he's too stubborn to do what needs to be done. Not having a dig Sim, just a flipside for the debate.

Yes, its a funny one with Staffies. As I say, my experience is very limited with them but only positive, whilst on the flipside you hear some nasty stories about how vicious the little buggers are. Nature & nurture...

Glad she found a home Philt1.

[sore legs]

She has now gone to a new home..or should i say will be on the 21st August.

Cant quite beleive the response i have had to my little old ad.. its been a good read

Oh my God - I hope you did not sell the pup to a cockney sounding bird from Herefordshire - the 21st is my anniversary and 'er in doors did say about another BC !!! I did assume that she was joking !!! :w00t: :w00t:

Im glad the pup has a home though.

[Antisocial]

She has now gone to a new home..or should i say will be on the 21st August.

Cant quite beleive the response i have had to my little old ad.. its been a good read

For 300? Will you be breeding another batch?