The question should be: if rabbits knew in advance when they were going to be chased, would they have developed a physiological mechanism for preparing them for sudden bursts of speed?Originally Posted by christopher leigh
The question should be: if rabbits knew in advance when they were going to be chased, would they have developed a physiological mechanism for preparing them for sudden bursts of speed?
Sorry Nick and Kate. I set the 'mad moment' brigade in to action with my comments or rather Percy Cerutty's comments. He was the coach to Herb Elliot in the sixties.The quote written in my last post was a reply given to someone in the audience who asked Percy if it was necessary to warm up.
Nikalas "do you think you can dissect me, with that blunt little tool." Do rabbits have muscles? Do cheetahs have muscles? Finally, do deers, one of the fastest land animals, live in cold Hayfield?
How would they know in advance of the chase? All I know is when I took the 'Chops' on the hill the other day, she snuck up on a relaxing rabbit in long grass. At the last possible moment it was off, without I say any special warm-up or stretching exercises.
Of course they have muscle....d'uh. They'll also have a higher resting temperature, pulse, higher proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres, more elastic capability in tendons and ligaments etc etc all selected for as fast burst animals. Our native deer species really aren't that fast compared to Thompsons etc which live in a warm climate but they'll have the same adaptations as rabbits that I've just described.
We've been through this warm-up chestnut before and you singularly failed to produce a single bit of evidence to back-up your assertions.... a quote from a 1960's coach is hardly at the cutting edge of Sports Science is it?
Average resting temperatures
Human: 37C
Rabbit: 38.3C
Cheetah: 39C
That's the point. They don't, so how could they have time to warm up even if it meant they would be able to run more quickly.
This experiment shows that rabbits are quick. I think we knew this. But would they be quicker if they warmed up?
Perhaps we should discard this rabbit analogy - prey animals don't really know when they're going to need bursts of speed so warming up would never be an option. How about racing animals, like horses and greyhounds? Do they run more quickly after a warm up?
Now, now, Nikalas, you'll be needing another weekend in the Lake District. Chilling out with the rabbits and deer.
Anyway you are making a serious error in your conclusions. You assume because a rabbit's temperature is 39 degrees and a cheetah's is 38, that if only ours was closer to theirs we'd perform better. The point is those temperatures are normal for THEM.
If animals really needed to warm-up then the rabbit would be on its back doing cycling strokes before the Chops got to him.
That is a good point Noel. I think it would be better to test animals other than Man, because then we don't have to deal with their opinions. The problem with testing animals in this way is developing a fair test.
I don't think we need to do it, because the answer is obvious. The body strives for its optimum temperature. Any higher or lower leads to a decrease in efficiency. When we start running we heat up and sweat. This shows that the body is too hot and is attempting to get back to normal temperature.
As usual you're totally missing the point and showing a complete lack of understanding of the principals of both evolutionary and sports science...
You're making assumptions for me. Obviously those temperatures are normal for them. They're higher because they're fast burst species and that, along with other traits, is what allows them to go so quickly from a standing start. I've never said or assumed that we'd be better off with a higher resting temperature as we're not a fast burst species.
My point is that it's pointless to make cross species comparisons because all species have been selected with different evolutionary pressures acting on them. Saying rabbits don't warm up so we don't have to is beyond stupid.... we're not rabbits. Rabbits have evolved as a fast burst species so will have evolved traits that favour that survival strategy. We didn't evolve as a fast burst species and therefore haven't. Rabbits wouldn't perform better with a warm-up because they don't need to but we, remember we're not rabbits, do.
Noel, fast burst prey animals don't "know" when they're going they're going to have to run but, because of millions of years locked in a predator/prey arms race, are physiologically in a state of constant readiness to exhibit their selected survival strategy ie. run like hell in a confusing zig-zag and find a hole. This isn't known or learned it's hard wired.
Trying to study the benefits of warm-ups on performance in other animals would be pretty pointless as the physiology of all animals is subtly different and applying what you find in one to another is always going to be suspect. That said, I don't know about greyhounds, but horse trainers and jockeys will always warm a race horse up before it races.
Anyway, we're getting distracted by another of CL's "Irrelevance Grenades". There have been numerous studies showing the physiological and psychological benefits of warming up for human athletic performance. Note, I'm not talking about pre-exercise stretching or injury prevention. You'd struggle to find a single one, top level coach or athlete who'd dispute this.
Come on CL, no more side stepping. One peer reviewed study published in a credible journal is all it'll take.......
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