Warming up...

[nikalas]

Now, now, Nikalas, you'll be needing another weekend in the Lake District. Chilling out with the rabbits and deer.

Anyway you are making a serious error in your conclusions. You assume because a rabbit's temperature is 39 degrees and a cheetah's is 38, that if only ours was closer to theirs we'd perform better. The point is those temperatures are normal for THEM.

If animals really needed to warm-up then the rabbit would be on its back doing cycling strokes before the Chops got to him.

As usual you're totally missing the point and showing a complete lack of understanding of the principals of both evolutionary and sports science...

You're making assumptions for me. Obviously those temperatures are normal for them. They're higher because they're fast burst species and that, along with other traits, is what allows them to go so quickly from a standing start. I've never said or assumed that we'd be better off with a higher resting temperature as we're not a fast burst species.

My point is that it's pointless to make cross species comparisons because all species have been selected with different evolutionary pressures acting on them. Saying rabbits don't warm up so we don't have to is beyond stupid.... we're not rabbits. Rabbits have evolved as a fast burst species so will have evolved traits that favour that survival strategy. We didn't evolve as a fast burst species and therefore haven't. Rabbits wouldn't perform better with a warm-up because they don't need to but we, remember we're not rabbits, do.

Noel, fast burst prey animals don't "know" when they're going they're going to have to run but, because of millions of years locked in a predator/prey arms race, are physiologically in a state of constant readiness to exhibit their selected survival strategy ie. run like hell in a confusing zig-zag and find a hole. This isn't known or learned it's hard wired.

Trying to study the benefits of warm-ups on performance in other animals would be pretty pointless as the physiology of all animals is subtly different and applying what you find in one to another is always going to be suspect. That said, I don't know about greyhounds, but horse trainers and jockeys will always warm a race horse up before it races.

Anyway, we're getting distracted by another of CL's "Irrelevance Grenades". There have been numerous studies showing the physiological and psychological benefits of warming up for human athletic performance. Note, I'm not talking about pre-exercise stretching or injury prevention. You'd struggle to find a single one, top level coach or athlete who'd dispute this.

Come on CL, no more side stepping. One peer reviewed study published in a credible journal is all it'll take.......

[Grouse]

Well I don't know about speed but greyhounds certainly taste better after a warm - up.



sorry

[Rob Furness]

Just thought I'd add a comment on this. I'm pretty confident I could run the equivalent distances a rabbit does (maybe 200 yards or so), without a warm-up, and at my top speed if I had sudden death following me closely....

although for the record I think it's a daft debate and I can't believe you're both so passionate about it. If a warm up works for you, then do it. If it doesn't, don't. No offence intended to either of you.

[Brotherton Lad]

I agree, the shorter the race, the longer the warm-up. A 5 hour race requires nothing more than a gentle stroll to the start-line, 1500 on the track needs a 30 minute session beforehand.

[mr brightside]

I think Nikalas is winning this.

How would they know in advance of the chase? All I know is when I took the 'Chops' on the hill the other day, she snuck up on a relaxing rabbit in long grass. At the last possible moment it was off, without I say any special warm-up or stretching exercises.

What's happened to Mr Benn, have you eaten him?

[CL]

As usual you're totally missing the point and showing a complete lack of understanding of the principals of both evolutionary and sports science...

You're making assumptions for me. Obviously those temperatures are normal for them. They're higher because they're fast burst species and that, along with other traits, is what allows them to go so quickly from a standing start. I've never said or assumed that we'd be better off with a higher resting temperature as we're not a fast burst species.

My point is that it's pointless to make cross species comparisons because all species have been selected with different evolutionary pressures acting on them. Saying rabbits don't warm up so we don't have to is beyond stupid.... we're not rabbits. Rabbits have evolved as a fast burst species so will have evolved traits that favour that survival strategy. We didn't evolve as a fast burst species and therefore haven't. Rabbits wouldn't perform better with a warm-up because they don't need to but we, remember we're not rabbits, do.

Noel, fast burst prey animals don't "know" when they're going they're going to have to run but, because of millions of years locked in a predator/prey arms race, are physiologically in a state of constant readiness to exhibit their selected survival strategy ie. run like hell in a confusing zig-zag and find a hole. This isn't known or learned it's hard wired.

Trying to study the benefits of warm-ups on performance in other animals would be pretty pointless as the physiology of all animals is subtly different and applying what you find in one to another is always going to be suspect. That said, I don't know about greyhounds, but horse trainers and jockeys will always warm a race horse up before it races.

Anyway, we're getting distracted by another of CL's "Irrelevance Grenades". There have been numerous studies showing the physiological and psychological benefits of warming up for human athletic performance. Note, I'm not talking about pre-exercise stretching or injury prevention. You'd struggle to find a single one, top level coach or athlete who'd dispute this.

Come on CL, no more side stepping. One peer reviewed study published in a credible journal is all it'll take.......

Now you are making claims to knowledge, for things you know nothing about. For instance how do you know a rabbit won't run faster without a warm-up? As a man who likes peer reviewed studies, where is your study on 'Rabbits wouldn't perform better with a warm-up?'

See, you criticise me for making philosophical deductions based on common sense, and yet you're doing it yourself.

To be frank your post above is pretty poor. For instance you claim that studying animals in warm-ups is 'pointless,' then in the next breath admit that horses are warmed up. So if it is pointless then maybe horse trainers are doing exactly the same as athletes. That is carrying on the warm-up tradition, passed down through a generation, without a single thought for questioning its usefulness. Not like rabbits, but sheep.

[CL]

As usual you're totally missing the point and showing a complete lack of understanding of the principals of both evolutionary and sports science...

You're making assumptions for me. Obviously those temperatures are normal for them. They're higher because they're fast burst species and that, along with other traits, is what allows them to go so quickly from a standing start. I've never said or assumed that we'd be better off with a higher resting temperature as we're not a fast burst species.

My point is that it's pointless to make cross species comparisons because all species have been selected with different evolutionary pressures acting on them. Saying rabbits don't warm up so we don't have to is beyond stupid.... we're not rabbits. Rabbits have evolved as a fast burst species so will have evolved traits that favour that survival strategy. We didn't evolve as a fast burst species and therefore haven't. Rabbits wouldn't perform better with a warm-up because they don't need to but we, remember we're not rabbits, do.

Noel, fast burst prey animals don't "know" when they're going they're going to have to run but, because of millions of years locked in a predator/prey arms race, are physiologically in a state of constant readiness to exhibit their selected survival strategy ie. run like hell in a confusing zig-zag and find a hole. This isn't known or learned it's hard wired.

Trying to study the benefits of warm-ups on performance in other animals would be pretty pointless as the physiology of all animals is subtly different and applying what you find in one to another is always going to be suspect. That said, I don't know about greyhounds, but horse trainers and jockeys will always warm a race horse up before it races.

Anyway, we're getting distracted by another of CL's "Irrelevance Grenades". There have been numerous studies showing the physiological and psychological benefits of warming up for human athletic performance. Note, I'm not talking about pre-exercise stretching or injury prevention. You'd struggle to find a single one, top level coach or athlete who'd dispute this.

Come on CL, no more side stepping. One peer reviewed study published in a credible journal is all it'll take.......

Now you are making claims to knowledge, for things you know nothing about. For instance how do you know a rabbit won't run faster without a warm-up? As a man who likes peer reviewed studies, where is your study on 'Rabbits wouldn't perform better with a warm-up?'

See, you criticise me for making philosophical deductions based on common sense, and yet you're doing it yourself.

To be frank your post above is pretty poor. For instance you claim that studying animals in warm-ups is 'pointless,' then in the next breath admit that horses are warmed up. So if it is pointless then maybe horse trainers are doing exactly the same as athletes. That is carrying on the warm-up tradition, passed down through a generation, without a single thought for questioning its usefulness. Not like rabbits, but sheep.

[CL]

Just thought I'd add a comment on this. I'm pretty confident I could run the equivalent distances a rabbit does (maybe 200 yards or so), without a warm-up, and at my top speed if I had sudden death following me closely....

although for the record I think it's a daft debate and I can't believe you're both so passionate about it. If a warm up works for you, then do it. If it doesn't, don't. No offence intended to either of you.

No offence taken. I just like getting sheep to walk in the opposite direction once in a while.

[noel]

Anyway, we're getting distracted by another of CL's "Irrelevance Grenades". There have been numerous studies showing the physiological and psychological benefits of warming up for human athletic performance. Note, I'm not talking about pre-exercise stretching or injury prevention. You'd struggle to find a single one, top level coach or athlete who'd dispute this.

What about moths? They shake to warm up their flight muscles.

[mr brightside]

Moths are cold blooded, i think they're restricting the debate to warm blooded animals.

Where's Mr Benn CL, is he in the freezer of a caribbean take away? We just want closure.