Winter BGR conditions check?

[Mark Smith]

Hello all

I'm all ready and waiting for mid-winter BGR number 2, starting at 0500 on Sat 11 Dec. As i am sure you can imagine, i'm getting a little bit concerned about the weather and ground conditions.

Last year i was denied a sub-24 hour time by the blizzards and foul weather on leg four and five but the ground conditions weren't that bad (with a few very grim exceptions, e.g. Foxes Tarn gully chocked with ice, all of leg five was one big snowdrift and the black ice on the road to Keswick was just cruel). This was because the winter weather was at the start of a very cold patch.

THis year my round is coming well into a cold patch, where the ground has had plenty of time to become treacherous. I can't move it back a week to allow a thaw to set in, shoudl one arrive, because my bro is getting married on the 18th and so it's the 11th or bust.

Whatever happens, i'll have a day out in the winter fells, it just might not be a BGR if conditions make the prospect of a sub 24 impossible. I'd be gutted, but alive.

The reason i'm posting is that I won't be able to make it up to the lakes a few days before to check things out and make an early assessment. If the conditions are obviously bad, and i'm talking about lakes of water ice across the route and very deep, barely passable snow, then I want to be able to tell my fantastic helpers that the purpose of the weekend will change, which means they can make a choice about how to spend their precious weekend.

If any of you are out on the fells next week, could you let me know how it's looking?

THe chances are i'll start the BGR and we convert the day if it's looking unlikely but i;d appreciate any intelligence on how things are looking up there.

I'm crossing everything and hoping for perfect snowy conditions and a brilliant BGR but these are the mountains and you have to exercise some judgement...

Thanks for any info folks

Mark

[andy k]

I'm not there but I was up over Ben Lawers on Saturday. Higher up the snow was probably a couple of weeks old and nicely consolidated with good neve. Lower down it was fresher and softer. I didn't hit any water ice at all.

The conditions may be cold but unlikely to be such that you should be significantly slowed down over long sections.
Thats based on how things are now, of course they could change dramatically but my sense is that the weather looks pretty stable on a macro scale and most importantly is largely calm, with no high winds.
There will be patches of water ice but you'll be able to go around these almost always -
plan to have one of your support crew a little out in front scouting the ground so you don't go on your arse. (its ok if they go on their arse (as long as its not too hard))
With low winds and not so much snow in the west then at present I don't see there being great drifts.
Again support crew scouting will avoid you disappearing in a drift up to your...
I think the weather will continue to come largely from the east.
With the good cold temperatures a nice neve could form, making things fairly quick in places.
Support will need to have footwear to give grip - I know you are planning on using OROCs - these or spikes look likely to be essential for everyone.

[Zmehican]

Hi Mark - I'm up there for a couple of days this weekend, leg1 and leg2 (leg 4 and 5 for you) I'll let you know what it is looking like.

Can we please keep this thread going for the next few weeks to help the other winter rounds?

[Mark Smith]

Wise words Andy - i am really hoping for those optimum ground conditions and cold, settled weather. Could be fantastic :-)))

Let's see though eh, the hills have a habit of being fickle...

JIm, i'll feed back as much info to you and Mr Etak as I can

Mark

[Full Moon Addict]

Hi Mark

Its proper winter conditions right now. You'll find it much more wintery than your round last year. The ground is well frozen everywhere. The snow is blowing right now so there will be sizeable drifts. the snow hasn't thawed anywhere so its soft, but there are areas of old neve. there's about 10cm of snow where I am at 120m altitude and there will be more higher. I was out on helvellyn on sunday where it was superb - quite slippy in just mudclaws on hard packed snow and I was glad of an ice axe in one or two places on neve. If it stays anything like this it will be fantastic but 24 hours is a very tough call under these conditions. I'll try to post some pics up from last sun and i'll let you know as I'm out and about this next week.

[Full Moon Addict]

i've uploaded some pics from sunday now:

http://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/gal...12037821_YZLH5

[IWCharters]

i've uploaded some pics from sunday now:

http://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/gal...12037821_YZLH5

So that is what we missed on Saturday - that for posting these John. We would have struggled without microspikes in Saturday and even with them the drifts, shallow as they were, were a nuisance - all powder and wouldn't take any weight.

[Mark Smith]

Thanks John. It's going to be interesting. I guess we'll start as planned as assess as we go. Nervous now!

[L.F.F.]

All the best with it. Have been following the posts about your attempt. Look forward to hearing how it went.

[Full Moon Addict]

Thanks John. It's going to be interesting. I guess we'll start as planned as assess as we go. Nervous now!

mark - just been out. its heavy going in the eastern fells! 20cm snow depth with drifts to 50-60cm. anywhere off trodden paths will be hard going where drifted. If it stays like this I'd treat it as a different challenge - one to get round. you'll know after the pillar section whether its do-able in 24 hours or not. I got close to completing when there was a foot of snow but gave up because I was on my own and a major blizzard which later cut off keswick was approaching. In my mind this was more memorable and satisfying than the time I got round in under 24 hours. I do remember how knackering it was though - its great on the parts where its windblown or lovely soft powder to romp down, but almost inevitably there will be sections fo crust and wallowing powder and hour upon hour of that is exceptionally tough. If its clearly not on for 24 hours and the conditions are properly wintery, I'd encourage you to enjoy it and carry on. Anybody who gets round in full-on winter with snow all the way round will have achieved something really special. Have a great day.