Long runs - fast?

[Alexandra]

I am training for the Baildon Boundary Way (half marathon), which means running further than I have for many years. My problem is not the distance - I am already almost up to 12 miles. But am very much a one pace runner, and that one pace is VERY VERY SLOW. I do try to do a bit of fartlek on my shorter runs (3-6 miles), but nothing much happens however hard I try to speed up. Realistically, I can only do 3 sessions a week, so I try to put in some faster sections on my long run too. However I read that the long run should be done slowly. If I can still get to the end of the proposed distance, does it matter if I push myself on my long runs? I feel that running even slower than I have to is a poor rehearsal for the race. On the other hand, perhaps if I just ran easily for 12 miles I would recover faster for my next run. Please advise! PS the only way for me to speed up is to do the HPTT Parkrun, but then I try so hard it takes me days to recover and makes a big dent in my training week.

[A.P.E Knott]

Long fast runs are for the very fit and very talented .
For us (i am presuming this is you ,it is certainly me !) then we have to train to go the distance.
If your race is a fell/trail run then it is not speed you need but the ability to endure a strong consistent pace up hill and down dale.
The best way to do this for fell /trail type races of this distance (10 + miles) is to train as much as you can on the hills (Trail is best but road will do).
Try running ever other day for at least one hour with up to two hours on the weekend (again trail/fell) the hills will raise you pulse up to threshold level .
As you get fitter, run a mid week run on a very hilly course (one hour or so ) and threshold run the hills up and over for 10 min stretches with easier (not jogging stretches) in between. The idea is to cut the easier stretches down over the period of you training until you are running the majority of the course at a strong pace. Let this come naturally ,again as you become fitter your body will want to push further.
For the long run start at 1 1/2 hours and add 10 mins per week, again this run needs to be hilly and preferably of road ,no heroics here just as the cyclists say "head down and arse up" ,if you have to (as I do) run loops round the hills to get the training effect you require.
For races of the distance you are racing I usually build up to this training and hold for 6-8 weeks before the race (if i am very fit I aim to up the weekend run to 2 1/2 hours and run home from work ,13 miles mid week plus the one hour threshold run )
Do not be afraid to rest before the race , i have four days off before a big race and feel a lot better for it.
So there you are ,best of luck.
regards
Mark

[TheReverand]

I would suggest to keep doing your long runs at about 50% effort, you should get through them without feeling too knackered and recovery will be quick as a result.
Try throwing in the odd fast km here and there at something more akin too your target race pace, this might help in giving you the confidence you can achieve your goal and make it feel more of a prep for a race if you get my drift :-)

[andy k]

The idea that a long run needs to be run slowly is misguided and as you say will only tend to prepare you to run slowly.
Don't slow yourself down
run at a pace that is comfortable, feels like you've tried but doesn't leave you exhausted for next time.
To improve your speed, try hill bounding. maybe 100m on a moderate gradient. at the top run 100m across, then 100m down, then 100 back to your start point
You don't have to race up the hill just strong steady controlled strides that get you to the top in reasonable shape to jog on.

[ZootHornRollo]

The idea that a long run needs to be run slowly is misguided and as you say will only tend to prepare you to run slowly.
Don't slow yourself down

agree totally

the LSR idea has been wrongly interpreted as allowing minimal effort

I think the 'S' is better thought of as 'steady' rather than 'slow'

I know a lot of people don't like gadgets like heart-rate monitors, and I don't own one myself - but since I started these spin classes where everyone is given a HRM, I can see why cyclists use them to target their training

[Mandovark]

I think the 'S' is better thought of as 'steady' rather than 'slow'

I agree. I suspect that the idea of "slow" long runs comes from training plans aimed at inexperienced runners who don't have a very clear sense of what "steady" means - I know this was true of me when I started out. I think it takes a certain amount of experience to learn how to judge the intensity of a run and to accept that every run shouldn't be lung-bursting effort. Knowing what I know now, I have no problem interpreting "steady" as meaning a comfortable aerobic pace, but I can remember a time when I would probably have thought that was "slow". I'd guess that the LSR idea is aimed mainly at runners who haven't really learned how to make use of different training paces and might need to think of what they do on a long run as slow, even if you or I might call it steady.

[MP1]

Totally agree too. I can't understand the need to run Long Slow Runs. There have been many discussions on this forum about time on feet, recovery runs, LSR etc. Steady is a much better term. I do believe that heart rate monitors are an essential aid to running intensities allowing people to run steadily and above so avoiding running slowly. For me and a personal thought - LSR are wasted running time ... and I know and understand the need to be careful of injuries.

[Alexandra]

At what % of your max would you run a long STEADY run?

[MP1]

For me between 70 and 85% of maximum, but at times above if there are long / steep climbs, fartlek or if I fancy trying to go quicker. Note the trying part!

[Flopsy]

Definitely agree that it's long steady run not a long slow run - although sometimes I'm quite happy to go long slow if it's a social run

I'm not a convert to HRM's - perhaps because I can't wear them - there's a lot to be said for running by perceived rate of exertion IMO. I use talking ability to guage my exertion rate!! I guess years of practice means I know the different feel of my different exertion rates. Wouldn't have a clue what they equated to in HR's though.

Sometimes wonder if the enjoyment of running is somewhat lost when you're constantly thinking about whether you are at your target heart rate I'm sure they benefit training but then I'm more interested in running than training I guess. I gave up triathlon (becuase of injury at first) but because the intense 3 sport schedule made me too conscious of times and performance and I'd lost all enjoyment in it........but there I go, waffling about something else entirely :wink:

Personally I'd say the combination of lots of long steady runs alongside short faster runs should work...but what would I know, I'm just a middle of the packer