Knee Niggle

[martmason]

Ooo we could could compare knee injuries although i dont think mine will meet the severity or the situation of yours, glad to hear you are back up and running tho. When i was eleven i daftly thought i could run faster than a car and got knocked over from behind which fractured my right patella in several places and all can remember is laying on the floor waiting for the ambulance thinking how much my ankle hurt.
Anyway i've not done Fairfield before but my father thinks its probably the best race on the calendar.

[mr brightside]

Mart, i'd second the advice about seeing a sports physiotherapist rather than a GP. If you do approach a GP it should only be for referral into the musculoskeletal system to be seen by a physio.

As far as the world of physiotherapists goes i often found myself torn between the advice and recommendations recieved from other fell runners (which i'm grateful for). Most of my treatment from the 4 physios i've seen, none of whom came by way of colleague recommendation, has been based around the same line of thinking, including the NHS physio who i'm currently with. I do sometimes wonder if my condition wouldn't descriminate between therapists, and remain intact no matter who i saw or how much i spent in fees and travelling expenses. That in mind, NHS therapists may be as good as anyone else and any recommendations would be invalid on the basis that every person is biomechanically different; and i'm biomechanically disastrous.

Be wary of being told to stop what you're doing altogether on more than one occasion. After my MRI scan (clear) i was expecting further tests, but what i got was an order to stop running for however long it took. I stopped everything for 4 months- so that's that tried and it didn't work. Good luck, i hope this problem doesn't persist and lead you to dark places.

[Hes]

I would agree with this. I had a knee injury that caused problems a year later. My GP was helpful, as she is a runner herself, but she warned me that the physio she referred me to would probably not be sympathetic as I could still run 10 miles (despite the pain) and I'd be better seeing a sports physio privately. I saw both (had to wait three months for the NHS physio) and agree, sports physio was brilliant and has got me back on track. The NHS physio diagnosed the same problem but said if I could run 10 miles then I was doing ok and maybe I should take up cycling instead. To be fair, I suspect he is overloaded with work and sees many people far worse off than me but if I couldn't have afforded the sports physio, I probably wouldn't be running now and seeing as it keeps me sane and healthy and, generally, out of the doctor's surgery...it makes you think!

Hi.
I wouldn't bother with a GP. I had a knee issues that only got bad after about 15 miles. The GP almost laughted at me when I asked for advice. He told me to stop running 15 miles.
I went to a Physio and they got me sorted with just one visit.

Tim

[martmason]

It seems the best or quickest solution is to attend a private sports physio clinic for specific personal recovery programs. Luckily I have a local practice called back to fitness which is where Karl Grey from CVFR works so they should be well practiced with these types of injuries and how they are picked up. I suppose in defense of our local gp practice they have to prioritize their patients needs and with the workload they can be forgiven to sometimes dismiss our niggles compared to some of the serious health issues they come across daily.
Ya know the thing, in the grand scheme and all that........

[Alexandra]

Hi Alexandra, I was just about to post something like, "okay I'll shut up about my knee now"! But now you've asked ... my other knee is mildly arthritic ...

Of course it is not great to have a broken patella for the short term, but so much better than a knee that was finished with arthritic decay. The surgeon said, "that's a stress fracture of your patella and I've never seen that before". He let me start fell running after Christmas (a 9-month recovery) and now I'm back to where I was - 2/3 down the field on a good day - and hoping to run the Fairfield this year, not stand still on Nab Scar.

Hi, Eleanor, thanks very much for satisfying my curiosity. I agree - much better to have a stress fracture than either arthritis (or osteoporosis, come to that). Are you sure about the arthritis? I have been to 2 very impressive sports physios who both frequently rubbish many diagnoses of arthritis. (Steve Hodgson in Sheffield and Andy Carswell in Harrogate). I have been haunted by fear of arthritis for years, as my family tends that way and I had intermittent knee pain. Touch wood, that has gone away pretty much completely since Andy told me to stretch my quads! It is always said that what is seen on x-raying a joint bears no relation to the pain felt (or not) by the person. And it is so easy to attribute all pains to arthritis. (It's yer age)! I imagine Harrogate and Sheffield are too far for you, but maybe you could find a sports physio 2nd opinion nearer home. I just appealed for recommendations on these forums and it worked like magic for me.

Terrific congratulations on being back where you were - that must have taken some determination, to put it mildly, and is a huge success in itself. And good luck for the Fairfield.

[Eleanor]

Thanks Alexandra for your good wishes. I agree that arthritis is a tricky diagnosis. I had an arthroscopy in my bad knee about 6 years ago and they found detereoration of the cartilage behind the kneecap. I forget the specific name but the catch-all term that they used was arthritis. Thankfully it hasn't got any worse since then and I'm careful about how much distance I run so that I don't knacker it too early in life. There have been times when it was quite bad, affecting everday walking and that's what led to the NHS arthroscopy. It was worst when I was pregnant so for many reasons I'm glad that my child-bearing years have passed now! However, I think you're right about getting other advice and there may be other things I can do to strengthen muscles that support my knees. I've never been good about seeking help and support for injuries - this is one reason I left the fractured knee so long - I'm getting better at this so I might even look someone up and get a service. Are you coming to Fairfield?

[Alexandra]

Thanks Alexandra for your good wishes. I agree that arthritis is a tricky diagnosis. I had an arthroscopy in my bad knee about 6 years ago and they found detereoration of the cartilage behind the kneecap. I forget the specific name but the catch-all term that they used was arthritis. Thankfully it hasn't got any worse since then and I'm careful about how much distance I run so that I don't knacker it too early in life. There have been times when it was quite bad, affecting everday walking and that's what led to the NHS arthroscopy. It was worst when I was pregnant so for many reasons I'm glad that my child-bearing years have passed now! However, I think you're right about getting other advice and there may be other things I can do to strengthen muscles that support my knees. I've never been good about seeking help and support for injuries - this is one reason I left the fractured knee so long - I'm getting better at this so I might even look someone up and get a service. Are you coming to Fairfield?

There was an extremely moving article in "Fellrunner" a while back by a woman who had an arthroscopy on her knee and it was bad news - was that you?

I'm sure there are always beneficial things one can do to strengthen those muscles round the knee, though I'm very bad at doing them. Andy gave me a brilliant exercise, which I regret to say I have yet to get into the habiit of doing, which involved staggering around wearing wellies to protect my legs and restricted by a very strong exercise band. (You'd have to be there!) I think Hes may well have been given this one too, and may even have done it!

Yes, being past child-bearing is IMO unalloyed joy - how did we bear all that? Any males reading this might want to skip the next bit: I recall changing a tampon while crouching in a very small grough on Ben Nevis (not during the race, however).

No. I won't be at the Fairfield. I'm really more of a trail runner, certainly not Cat. A material. It would have been nice to chat, though.

[martmason]

Ah unfortunately Alexandra I missed the bit about men missing the next bit....... it is good to see some nice thread chat going on.
Does anybody fully follow recovery exercise routines and rest for the prescribed times, talking of which its time I got changed for my weekly headtorch run. At least if it aggregates my knee I,m booked in for my first physio session tomorrow.

[Hes]

That's a coincidence...have been wondering whether to start a 'what to do in a long race when you have your period' thread but have been too embarrassed. Knee niggle probably isn't the place to discuss it though!

I'll go and search the health section and see if its been addressed. Am worrying about Three Peaks. Its a pain being a woman sometimes...literally!

Sorry Martmason, I do hope you get that knee sorted.

There was an extremely moving article in "Fellrunner" a while back by a woman who had an arthroscopy on her knee and it was bad news - was that you?

I'm sure there are always beneficial things one can do to strengthen those muscles round the knee, though I'm very bad at doing them. Andy gave me a brilliant exercise, which I regret to say I have yet to get into the habiit of doing, which involved staggering around wearing wellies to protect my legs and restricted by a very strong exercise band. (You'd have to be there!) I think Hes may well have been given this one too, and may even have done it!

Yes, being past child-bearing is IMO unalloyed joy - how did we bear all that? Any males reading this might want to skip the next bit: I recall changing a tampon while crouching in a very small grough on Ben Nevis (not during the race, however).

No. I won't be at the Fairfield. I'm really more of a trail runner, certainly not Cat. A material. It would have been nice to chat, though.

[Alexandra]

That's a coincidence...have been wondering whether to start a 'what to do in a long race when you have your period' thread but have been too embarrassed. Knee niggle probably isn't the place to discuss it though!

I'll go and search the health section and see if its been addressed. Am worrying about Three Peaks. Its a pain being a woman sometimes...literally!

I don't know if there's time for it to take effect, but how about going on the Pill just for a few weeks? I know women used to do that before big expeditions and such.