Bad planning and the BG Circus

[arcman100]

What follows are all my opinions and I’m sure a lot of folk on this forum (knowledge based on the hundreds of posts I’ve digested over the years) will disagree. On the other hand, I know of plenty of folk that will agree.

The serious injury that was sustained to an individual supporting a Bob Graham attempt descending Blencathra at the weekend was a terrible accident waiting to happen. Whilst my best wishes are with him for a speedy recovery, and I acknowledge it was an accident, it could have been avoided. The incident was a result of bad planning, poor mountaincraft and lack of collective and individual responsibility.

I have accounts of the accident from two of the contenders’ support party who were there at the time of the accident, both of whom I know very well. Whist I discuss this particular Bob Graham attempt, I don’t want to single it out as being a one off. The fact is that there are far far too many of these thrown together attempts and it just happened to be this attempt that ended (it ended at the time of the accident as far as I’m concerned) badly. Don’t forget, the incident could have been a whole lot worse with the weather as it was; exposure couldn’t have been far off.

It seems the contender, at very short notice, enlisted the help of volunteers to pace and navigate her round the route. These volunteers, from all parts of the country, were generally strangers to each other. Many did not know the route, few knew each others mountain-craft ability, weaknesses, strengths, navigational ability etc etc. Many were relying on others to navigate for them and act as carriers and pacers. Going into the fells at night, in horrendous weather with strangers is asking for trouble. Why would anyone do it? Think about it. Only one of the group on Leg 1 (including the contender) knew the intricacies of the ‘Parachute route’. That’s fine, but that navigator should ensure the group stays together, especially in weather conditions such as those. A decision to follow the straight forward path down the Hallsfell ridge should have been made. Hindsight doesn’t even come into it. I’ve never tried the route myself as Hallsfell can be dropped plenty quickly anyway, but having heard accounts of pals who have done it and are expertly capable of descending rough lake district hill sides at speed, it sounds awful.

The past couple of weekends have seen some bad forecast weather. OK, perhaps the weather last weekend was worse than forecasted but surely common sense must prevail? Peoples safety is of far more importance than completing a Bob Graham. Pull out, come back another day and don’t put people (strangers) at risk. I’ve made the decision for people before to abandon in poor conditions – its not worth it. Hard lines if you’re from far flung parts of the country and have all the cost incursions to deal with. There are other weekends.

I’m continually surprised by the number of contenders who turn up at Moot Hall without intimate knowledge of the route. They seemingly rely on others to navigate. Folk say the physical completion of the route is enough of a challenge. I completely disagree. Physically dragging yourself around the route is only part of the challenge. Self-navigation forms another large part. You’re not telling me Bob Graham himself needed a pal to point him in the right direction off Great Calva, or a quick nudge to set him on track for Watsons Dodd? You must be able to navigate yourself around the route. You must be able to extricate yourself from tricky situations whatever the weather. Isn’t a requirement for membership of the Bob Graham Club to have someone with you to ratify the summit visit and encourage safety? I’m all for supporting friends on their attempts, friends with whom I’ve spent countless hours in the fells with. Friends I trust, friends I know can navigate and friends I know well enough to know when they are having a bad patch.

You may think this is an elitist approach. Maybe so as I am an elite runner, I have won races and I have completed the Bob Graham, albeit solo, so I won’t be on that list. There are plenty of others like me who have done it solo (I’ve met them, one particular person I met on my solo round who started in Wasdale, did it on-sight and completely self-supported; a mountain-man of great competence and navigational ability). Comments suggesting that only a handful of people are capable of soloing round the Bob Graham are completely wrong. There are plenty of people, but they are most probably the sorts that don’t post on here. Self-navigation should be a pre-requisite of the round. Its hard, its mentally draining, but that’s the challenge! Don’t get me wrong, I respect anyone who can complete a Bob Graham, but I will only respect them if I know they have navigated themselves round and that the only reason they do it with others, is for them to carry their stuff and act as mobile morale boosters. Soloing it isn’t for everyone. Also, does one person really need upwards of 8 people to act as carriers and morale boosters? Carrying one jelly baby each is it?

Marking the route also shouldn’t be considered. Its not part of the club ethos for a start but my main concern is that marking routes highlights peoples inability to navigate. You shouldn’t be heading into the fells unless you can navigate. You shouldn’t need cairns marking turning points or canes leading you off Great Calva (it was me and a few pals who pulled out the ridiculous amount of canes leading off from the summit towards the Caldew a few weeks ago if you want to know). Get your map and compass out, or better still, keep your map and compass in your bag and navigate based on your intimate knowledge of the route, lie of the land, natural features etc etc etc

In my opinion, aspirant Bob Graham completers who feel they can call upon strangers to navigate them around the route in order to increase the credibility of their CV should be rethinking their approach. Risking peoples safety is not an option. Planning a Bob Graham round properly very much is.

I hope you recover quickly Nigel.

[anyoldiron]

I don't know the people indicated in your post well enough to comment on mountain-craft etc.

However, your overall point is clear and well made. I have been fortunate enough to spend April and May living up in the Lake District doing recces of the route and even now I would not feel 100% comfortable doing it this year; there is still much to learn. The crux of the matter is how to regulate entries without imposing burdensome bureaucratic hurdles likely to stifle a sport which is enjoyed by so few.

[Nigel]

Interesting. I think you should raise some debate. I do not disagree with many of your main points which are sound. For the record I had ran with all the group before bar one person who was a friend of one of the group. But, yes, I have supported as a 'stranger' before. But 'strangers' coming together is also something that appeals to me about the BG. With regard to experience while I am not elite, never have been nor ever will be I do consider myself to have mountaincraft. I have been around mountains for some 30 years and can navigate as well as anybody. I qualified as a JSMEL back in my twenties which is the armed services equivalent of the civilian MTLB Mountain Leadership Board (I think it may be called something else nowadays) and have undertaken other courses along the way. I think my mountaincraft enabled me to do the right things to keep myself safe on this occasion especially to mitigate exposure risk. You are right, others may not have done so. Can or should it be regulated? I don't know. I'm in two minds. It will be interesting to follow the debate as it unfolds.

[parkovski]

I think there are only two basic issues to take:

1) All persons venturing on to the fells (or indeed, engaging with the physical world in general) should be aware of potential hazards, their ability to mitigate them, and above all their personal responsibility for their own safety. Even the decision to surrender some responsibility to others is personal choice.

2) All efforts should be made to minimise physical impacts on the landscape.


The original post contained much wisdom, but I believe couched much of it in an overly prescriptive tone. I don't want to speculate on the circumstances surrounding the "accident waiting to happen". I'm sure there were some hard lessons, but I doubt there was any "lack of collective or individual responsibility" taken for actions precipitating these. I look forward to reading responses of those involved either defending their decisions, or defending their right to make bad decisions!

I agree that (statistically) an accident on a wet nighttime BG attempt was likely to happen, but surely such risks are obvious and often part of the attraction. There is no adventure without the possibility of misadventure. I agree in principle with the OP that it would be better if only persons with a certain level of competence ventured into the fells, but we can't deny anyone this freedom. This is partly because it is almost impossible to fully appraise the relevant metrics of competence, and more (I think) because doing so would be fundamentally wrong.

My major issue with the original post is it's contradictory nature in some respects. How can one be against a "thrown together attempt", whilst championing a spur of the moment on-sight solo attempt (which I agree is a marvelous thing to do)? Surely the less knowledge of the route the greater the challenge. And if you don't know your companions, then this again adds to the challenge. You might argue it isn't the best way to do it, but you could argue the same for a midwinter attempt, for an attempt in bad weather, or for an attempt by a contender with only average fitness.

Whist I can understand doubts that having 8 rather than 2 pacers will especially useful, is it actually bad for numerous persons to venture into the fells together if they want to? If it is concern for the erosive impact this has, then how can one reconcile this with the wear exerted on the ground by the intensive reconnaissance needed to spawn the essential "intimate knowledge" of the route?

[parkovski]

Nigel, you beat me to it. Hope you get well soon!

[Mr1470]

Arcman, are you by any chance related to YorkshireThug?:wink:

I think you raise some very valid points but, unfortunately, you have chosen to link those points to a specific case which is a bit recent and also has some mitigating factors. For example, I do happen to know that the BG contender does know the route well, has done plenty of reccies on it and, when it comes to getting together the support at short notice, suffers from being based a long way south and having a very valid reason for wanting another crack at it quickly.

But, on the other hand, I've seen enough over the last 2 or 3 years to know there are serious accidents waiting to happen. And I think they happen where fellrunners swap over to something as long and serious as the BG without the necessary mountain background. Contenders coming into a road stop soaked and shivering is not good. Your body will take so much of that before it starts to pack up. I've also seen attempts flounder due to lack of warm clothing....again, not good. I know there's speculation as to whether the BG isn't just as likely to be completed by someone from a walking background as from a running one, and I think that's mostly true - the reason being, the person from a walking background will generally have that "mountain sense".

As for the navigation, the most pertinent point you make is that EVERY contender and EVERY support person should be able to navigate themselves around the route and should be able to get themselves off the hill safely if necessary. However, where you are wrong, I believe, is to suggest that that is the responsibility of any other person in that group alone.

To take the example you mention about the route off Blencathra, the contender and navigator went the chosen way. It is then up to other supporters to either follow or make a decision to descend an alternative way. They, and they alone, have to make that call based on factors such as weather, underfoot conditions, navigational competence etc.

It seems to me, as well, that as well as "accidents waiting to happen", the law of statistics says that there will be, from time to time, accidents on BG attempts as well. This current incident, based on Nigel's postings, seems to have been just that.

[Stagger]

I feel anyone and everyone considering a BG should read arcman100 account and take note.

Safety of all on the fells should be paramount at all times.

[southernsoftie]

Intersting read that arcman100, as someone who is looking to start his BGR preparation.

I was always prepared to pull the plug on any scheduled attempt if I didn't consider myself fit enough. But I'd never really considered my mountain craft. I can navigate from a map, compass & lie of the land, and have some basic military nav training in my background.

I plan to walk the whole route it over 3 days with individual sections recced at pace in between then and my scheduled attempt. But is this enough? How well do I need to know the round? With this basic route knowledge and nav skills, is this sufficient for me to then ask others to give up their time to support me, potentially putting them at risk too?

Definitely food for thought. :closed:

As to Stef's round - and taking on board what you've said - with all the preparation in the world, even an 'elite' runner with expert mountain craft supported by more in the same mould, that does not preclude a similar accident happening. Or are you saying that they should not have even been where they were because they should have called it earlier?

[Nowton Park Harrier]

"You may think this is an elitist approach. Maybe so as I am an elite runner, I have won races and I have completed the Bob Graham, albeit solo, so I won’t be on that list. There are plenty of others like me who have done it solo (I’ve met them, one particular person I met on my solo round who started in Wasdale, did it on-sight and completely self-supported; a mountain-man of great competence and navigational ability). Comments suggesting that only a handful of people are capable of soloing round the Bob Graham are completely wrong. There are plenty of people, but they are most probably the sorts that don’t post on here. Self-navigation should be a pre-requisite of the round. Its hard, its mentally draining, but that’s the challenge! Don’t get me wrong, I respect anyone who can complete a Bob Graham, but I will only respect them if I know they have navigated themselves round and that the only reason they do it with others, is for them to carry their stuff and act as mobile morale boosters. Soloing it isn’t for everyone. Also, does one person really need upwards of 8 people to act as carriers and morale boosters? Carrying one jelly baby each is it?"

Perhaps it's time solo runs were recognised? With modern tracking devices it must be possible to check that the 42 peaks have been visited and in what time.

[dominion]

If you want solo BG's recognised then go ahead and form your own club with your own rules. It would have no more or less legitimacy than any other Bob Graham Club, plus you can design your own tie?