Well, It probably would but we can't turn back the clock, even if we may want to.Originally Posted by Mark L
The fact is the BG has become famous and the whole "circus" is a result of that.
Some might say it needs some kind of 'management' but that notion is even more cringe-inducing than the 8-pacers per section syndrome...
YES! I think it is time solo attempts are recognised if supported by a tracking device... I know people will say, ah, but you could do it as a relay and let others carry the tracking device, but there is something of an honour involved here as well. Why would one want to cheat or lie? You will only betray yourself...
Mind, I don't really mind solo attempts aren't recognised to a point, because if you do one you do it for a reason and that is the challenge of the BGR, solo, unsupported, in 24 hours. If you have done it, that is all that matters. No proof or official recognition needed...
“the cause of my pain, was the cause of my cure” Rumi
The notes supplied to prospective contenders suggest that those involved should have suitable mountain experience, in effect a degree of self-reliance, but that self-reliance will fail at some point given enough stimuli. What happens then is often down to chance, though some may try and backtrace to find an earlier sequence of causitive effects or decisions. Experience itself is most often gained by repeated mistakes or near misses resulting in subtle changes of behaviour, even if we don't realise it at the time. Ideally you learn from the mistakes of others - one of the reasons why the air industry have a means of anonymous no-blame reporting of potential incidents.
To be honest I'm surprised that there aren't more accidents, both on the BGR and in fell running in general, as we head out on the fells in what most people would regard as totally inadequate kit. Of course everything is fine when you are moving, even in pretty foul weather, it's when you stop for whatever reason that the "fun" begins and you realise that you are in quite a serious situation and experience comes to the fore. "Safe" is a relative term, some people would freak out at the lack of visible backup etc while others would feel enlivened by the same situation. There's a balance between taking enough spare kit - clothing, etc. to be reasonably safe and taking so much that you are burdened down. As a minimum of group gear, I'd expect a basic first aid kit and emergency bivvy kit between the party which isn't going to add a huge amount of weight or bulk.
As for knowing partners on the hill - I did the north face of the Eiger in my second alpine season with someone I'd never climbed with before, OK we knew of each other's climbing record but we didn't know how we'd get on when under duress or how the other would react in an emergency. There is always a level of trust involved in endeavours like the BGR, there will also be an element of risk and uncertainty (long may it remain so) and no amount of longevity of friendship or previous experience will remove that. One point that I think is important is to know each others' strengths and (more importantly) weaknesses and to be able to cover those weaknesses with the strengths of others.
I must admit to being slightly uneasy about "real-time" reporting of BGR attempts but it is perhaps a consequence of an "always on" geographically dispersed community that forums such as this become. Does knowing that there are constant updates available on a contender introduce new pressures on them to continue when perhaps they may have called it a day at an earlier point? Other sports have had similar systems for some time, it's just new to fell running and challenges such as the BGR, maybe we are just catching up with everyone else.
As Morgan has said (often) solo rounds are recognised by the club when done by those who have already done a supported/witnessed round and have elected to become members of the club. A bit of a technical distinction as to why a person should become trustworthy just because they are a club member. I imagine that there are quite a few who do a solo round purely for themselves and are happy to leave it at that, there's no mandate that you have to join the club but if you wish to then it follows that you accept the rules for admission.
Bob
http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php
Without me you'd be one place nearer the back
Arcman100
There is no need to apologise for upsetting me; you have not.
You say you did not intend to question anyone’s integrity in particular, only to use the attempt as an example of how you think BGs should not be organised to ensure the safety of all on the fell. This is exactly what you should be apologising for. For using my attempt as an example when I have clearly demonstrated that your facts are incorrect.
You say the urgent request for help set up 2 weeks prior to the attempt generated responses from many strangers (be them potential new friends!!) and this made you feel really uncomfortable. Almost all responses to my request for help were from people I knew. How can you claim to know these people were strangers when that is exactly what you are to me? Of the five ‘strangers’ that offered assistance, three became part of the team. These I took care to make sure were familiar with the BGR and able to self support.
You say you still feel that as a result of the swiftness of organisation, perhaps safety concerns were put behind BG success. You are relying entirely on your gut feelings and know nothing of the organisation that went into the attempt. Safety concerns were not put behind BG success.
you say you only mentioned your credentials as a way of demonstrating your experience to post comment, not as a way to seek back-handed jibes as a perceived know-it-all. What experience do you have of organising a Bob Graham Round? You have demonstrated your success in competing at elite level, but nothing of your mountain craft or organisational skills.
Are you Ricky Lightfoot or not?
Your apology for causing offense cannot be accepted until you cease doing so.
Impossible is nothing!
My blog
There must be many people who have done a BG without navigating on their round, do they deserve respect or critisism? Personally i'd respect them, if they've got a good support crew with plenty of experience what's the problem. It all smacks of i did it harder than you. The BG is a personal experience that varies from person to person, some want to solo it, some want to winter it, some want a fast time, some just want to get round.
An extract from the book 'The Best of the Fells' by Peter Hooper.
'And to Chris Ray, never before in the lakes, with minimal open fell experience, running in 5-a-side studded shoes with some but not much grip, well done indeed for getting round in a commendable time: it was much easier doing it together.'
A Royal Marine i should point out, does he not deserve respect, he's got mine.
Hills and Guinness!
And that from a former Para! :w00t:
That quote raises a good point: in the past, the efforts of the have-a-go, happy amateur would be applauded ('tis the British way, after all).
If a runner from a non-fellrunning background - with kit that only approximates to what the more practised might use - wanted to have a go, if his support team were aware of this and comfortable with the circs, surely the responsibility is with each individual member of the team? And only then for their own decision?
"The best shield is to accept the pain, then what can really destroy me?"
http://garyufm.blogspot.co.uk
I should add that the RM had an excellent support crew had done some reccies and was obviously fit. Yes, you need to reccie, yes, you need to be able to nav yourself, but if you have experienced navigators on your round it all adds to the safety factor. With regards to YDT i don't think anyone can question his nav ability or experience.
With regards to Nigel, he is not blaming anyone for his accident, why should anyone else?
Hills and Guinness!
I might be guilty of pedantry here, but you don't need to reccie. It just makes it easier, and is rightly advisable to most people to ensure success. The navigation isn't exactly super difficult (compared to mm for eg), it's just that there is a lot of it and most people want to maximise their chances.
The only thing you NEED to do is visit 42 peaks, 4 bits of tarmac and the moot hall inside 24 hours.
I could navigate my way around a BG, I have the skills and experience, but I know for sure I couldn't run and navigate fast enough to achieve the 24 hour target. That is why I need navigators, and the more skilled and experienced the better. Should I be denied because I'm not fast? I don't think so. I'm strong, fit, determined and to me the challenge is to get round in the time. To do that with friends at my side would be a dream come true. To do it with the assistance of highly esteemed highly skilled fell runners would be an honour.
Impossible is nothing!
My blog
You won't be denied Stef. I'd too would like to complete and share it with my friends. The social aspect and camaraderie of fellrunning is what attracted me to the sport. I wouldn't/couldn't do a solo round, it's not for me, i'd get bored. Take my hat off to and respect anyone who has though. If fact i respect and admire anyone who competes, organizes, marshalls, supports and takes pictures in this great sport we have. If i've left anyone out, i respect and admire you too.
Hills and Guinness!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
