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Thread: Wind Power

  1. #91
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    Imagine. A combination of renewable, MSR nuclear and local hydrogen cell technology could immediately free the global energy economy from coal and oil giving enough time for fusion to come on line.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by biaraV2 View Post
    Oh the irony, one of the leading research groups
    https://www.firstpost.com/tech/scien...e-5404551.html

    One of the groups funding is the EU, so obviously Oracle will not want anything from this particular research

    The EU fund nothing, it's your money right? And if you followed the history of collective projects on fusion they, like the EU, have been a disaster for the same reasons. Far Too many cooks. Committees of ten don't work, let alone 27. I'm guessing you know nothing about the history of fusion projects!

    So don't you dare roll eyes at me, because I've run and been involved in international science consortiums. I know what works and what does not. ESA ran collaborative science before the EU was a dream in some despots eye. I know, I did a number of ESA projects even in 1985! I've been involved in collaborative IAS projects since that putting advanced equipment on four continents.

    Difference between me and you biara, is I've seen it all up close.
    I don't just read EU propaganda and PR b/s. Eu is a disaster. A titanic that will sink under the weight of its own hubris, and the dysfunction of the Euro. It's up to remainers whether they want us to sink with it. It seems they do.

    What fusion actually needs is a visionary or small consortium to do it with billions of private capital, by organisations with the right IPR and skill set, so it doesn't get dragged down by the usual intercountry politics that have plagued most of the previous fusion projects. Think Bransons space project as an example.

    Such as Rockwell are working on it. They are considering small scale.
    Last edited by Oracle; 19-04-2019 at 07:43 PM.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    The EU fund nothing, it's your money right? And if you followed the history of collective projects on fusion they, like the EU, have been a disaster for the same reasons. Far Too many cooks. Committees of ten don't work, let alone 27. I'm guessing you know nothing about the history of fusion projects!

    So don't you dare roll eyes at me, because I've run and been involved in international science consortiums. I know what works and what does not. ESA ran collaborative science before the EU was a dream in some despots eye. I know, I did a number of ESA projects even in 1985! I've been involved in collaborative IAS projects since that putting advanced equipment on four continents.

    Difference between me and you biara, is I've seen it all up close.
    I don't just read EU propaganda and PR b/s. Eu is a disaster. A titanic that will sink under the weight of its own hubris, and the dysfunction of the Euro. It's up to remainers whether they want us to sink with it. It seems they do.

    What fusion actually needs is a visionary or small consortium to do it with billions of private capital, by organisations with the right IPR and skill set, so it doesn't get dragged down by the usual intercountry politics that have plagued most of the previous fusion projects.

    Such as Rockwell are working on it. They are considering small scale.
    Ooh I do like you when you get cross.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    Ooh I do like you when you get cross.
    He might be cross but he is spot on!
    Visibility good except in Hill Fog

  5. #95
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    I worked on fusion research for a few years in the 1980's, and even then I got the impression that the expected date for fusion power plants connected to the grid seemed to be receding further into the future. I remember a date of 2030 being quoted at that time; I note the article linked by biara says 57 years from now; so the date is still receding!

    There seems to be a real dilemma here: on the one hand, maybe the huge sums of money being thrown at fusion research could have been used to solve our energy problems by more low-tech methods; on the other hand, if we didn't support fusion research we might be missing a wonderful opportunity to solve our energy problems by a technology with fairly minimal environmental impact.

    I haven't kept up with recent developments in the field, but I don't get the impression that the small-scale approaches are doing any better than the big international projects.
    In his lifetime he suffered from unreality, as do so many Englishmen.
    Jorge Luis Borges

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Llani Boy View Post
    He might be cross but he is spot on!
    Maybe so - but I thought he might become emotionally overwhelmed if I complimented him and stop posting.

    Incidentally (declaration of interest) my pension is paid by National Grid so after a working life in the energy business I do continue to take a passing interest in fads and fancies and political smoke and mirrors.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  7. #97
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    So it's a bit like Heseltine as a recipient of millions of EU money just for owning land, saying:
    " Brexit is bad for everyone!" When he really means " Brexit is bad for Me!"

    More seriously, I think the green energy debate has been a triumph of wish over reality. The funding of people to own solar for high fixed return just for the illusion of progress was also abhorrent to me. Batteries made it viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    Maybe so - but I thought he might become emotionally overwhelmed if I complimented him and stop posting.

    Incidentally (declaration of interest) my pension is paid by National Grid so after a working life in the energy business I do continue to take a passing interest in fads and fancies and political smoke and mirrors.
    Last edited by Oracle; 19-04-2019 at 09:15 PM.

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    So it's a bit like Heseltine as a recipient of millions of EU money just for owning land, saying:
    " Brexit is bad for everyone!" When he really means " Brexit is bad for Me!"
    Ah well. Charity begins at home.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  9. #99
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    Things have moved on,
    I think technological development with passage of time will bring the answer.

    I am basing that on the development of magnetic materials and superconductors that are improving analogous to moores law in semiconductors.

    Sooner or later it in my view it will become possible for magnetism to crush plasma into fusion. I also think that energy extraction will favour small over larger scale because of energy density.

    Looking at the history of semiconductor development every couple of years they would say " we are now at the quantum limit" and barely 2 years later junction and well volumetric density would be an order of magnitude better! I think the same will be true of superconductors and so magnetic fields.

    So I am an optimist.
    I have one proviso: the many country approach where all are pulling apart to wrest control of as much of the project as they can has pulled the projects apart and wasted most of the money, So the fusion projects remind me of the same white elephant multiplied of EU moving to Strasbourg each year , at massive expense just to appease the politics.

    I therefore believe it will be solved in a collaboration in private sector, where decisions have less politics.
    The problem will be to ensure the entire world benefits. The genome projects raised similar ethical questions.


    Quote Originally Posted by anthonykay View Post
    I worked on fusion research for a few years in the 1980's, and even then I got the impression that the expected date for fusion power plants connected to the grid seemed to be receding further into the future. I remember a date of 2030 being quoted at that time; I note the article linked by biara says 57 years from now; so the date is still receding!

    There seems to be a real dilemma here: on the one hand, maybe the huge sums of money being thrown at fusion research could have been used to solve our energy problems by more low-tech methods; on the other hand, if we didn't support fusion research we might be missing a wonderful opportunity to solve our energy problems by a technology with fairly minimal environmental impact.

    I haven't kept up with recent developments in the field, but I don't get the impression that the small-scale approaches are doing any better than the big international projects.
    Last edited by Oracle; 19-04-2019 at 10:50 PM.

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