4x4s

[The devil's own]

Similar thread here http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...x4-enthusiasts from last year.
Problem is if people keep pushing then I see one of two things happening. They will either have designated area's for vehicles and as a result limit the access you have to trails or they will start to limit access to everything and everyone that starts with the 4x4's, then mountain bikes then runners and so on and you will end up with a situation like new zealand where there aren't many races due to access issues.
Personally I don't have an issue with them, might be because I'm a petrol head.

[Mark G]

Eavesy - what you thought was the light at the end of the tunnel is just some bastard with a torch bringing you more work.

[The devil's own]

This post by Flopsy in the previous thread is well worth a read with some good points:

"Ok, points:

a) When I had my MTB accident it was bunch of 4x4's that were (luckily) passing near by some time later that scooped me and my bike up and took me off the hill, thereby meaning that they didn't have to get the Yorkshire Air Ambulance out to rescue me being as I couldn't walk. So thanks to those 4x4'ers.

b) There are responsible 4x4'ers and there irresponsible 4x4ers. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

c) If you want to talk about erosion and damage then I think walkers do as much damage if you consider how many walkers there are compared to the small amount of 4x4'ers that bother with green lanes nowadays. Think about the 3 peaks. Think about many of your favourite walks that are now horrible man made stone paths to try and prevent walker erosion. Don't even get me started on the mess made of my local woods due to horses. To be honest I probably see more damage from quads nowadays.

d) Mountain bilkers, runners, walkers - how many of them are responsible for pollution though littering! The amount of rubbish on the hills is disgraceful. In fact some farmers are some of the worst polluters of them all.

e) 4x4'ers are being restricted and many rights to green lanes have been removed.

My point being isn't it easy to be scathing of 'all' people of a certain group of people just becuase you don't share a common interest with that group of people. On this and many other forums this has extended to 'all' dogs and dog owners; 'all' cyclists; and 'all' car drivers. There are also many people who criticise walkers and runners. It's easy to be critical of something you don't share a passion for isn't it!"

[Dr H Tool]

As usual we seem to attract a type of user to this forum who doesn't seem to have the sentiments as the rest of us.

Attachment 5316

This damage ain't caused by fell running shoes or walking boots.

But I for one will not be argueing the toss on this forum I will doing something a bit more substantial and I'm not alone. I learnt many years ago that everyone thinks they have an excuse!!!!

[Stagger]

Live and let live.

[The devil's own]

As usual we seem to attract a type of user to this forum who doesn't seem to have the sentiments as the rest of us.

Oh I am sorry that I have my own mind, my own interests and that I don't really care whether I fit in or not. I also think you'll find the "rest of us" isn't quite correct, not everyone on this forum shares your views.

And as for your call to arms, may I suggest you pack your sandwich box and jog on to the nearest green lane of your hearts desire and say boo to the bad man in the landy, instead of "arguing the toss on this forum"

[The devil's own]

Eavesy - what you thought was the light at the end of the tunnel is just some bastard with a torch bringing you more work.

Or some bastard in a Landy

[nikalas]

It's a really tricky one and you need to take a step back from your gut reaction and think a bit about the bigger picture.

My gut reaction is to ban the lot of them (4x4's, trail bikes and quads) from all non-metalled roads in all National Parks.

My main reason is simply the noise, especially trail bikes, which just doesn't sit within the aims of National Parks and is undoubtably a nuisance and irritant to other users.

Next up is erosion. The pro lobby can object as much as they want about walkers/bikers/horses etc causing as much damage but that's simply nonsense. At home in the Peak it's obvious to see what has trashed many of the trails and it's motorised vehicles. At my parents on the Marlborough Downs there are By-Ways that are totally unusable to other users because of the deep ruts caused by 4x4's.

Finally, and this was highlighted in the film, some Green Lanes are just too narrow to allow a 4x4 to safely pass pedestrians etc.

However, as a mountain biker, if 4x4's etc are banned, will it be me next that sights are set on...

The only real solution is a complete review of all ROW. The designations as to what is what and who's allowed on what were made years ago before the advent of mountain biking and recreational off-road driving. This is why I'll ride on some footpaths, following these very sensible rules http://www.cheekytrails.co.uk/ethics.htm

This review isn't going to happen though so I think the Parks Authorities have to introduce temporary rolling closures to mechanised vehicles. This'll allow trails to recover and, if closed during the gloopy winter months, stop the bulk of the damage.

[simgreen78]

I watch this last night, I did know about it, I understand that the 4x4 drivers have some quite serious financial backing but the protesters aren't so well off. The meeting by Stanage road by Take back the tracks featured last night http://www.dpfr.org.uk/#news/item/809 was an important one, the bottom section is unwalkable now, I used to cycle this 20 years ago and it was a lovely track.

The track was given the closure order (Chapel gate?) is also terrible. it's so bad that normal 4x4 now find it unpassable and only Monster truck style 4x4's can do it along with bikes

It been quite an issue for a whilse with Houndkirk road being destroyed first by the 4x4 drivers and then by the National park who resurfaced it into an eyesore http://www.dpfr.org.uk/#news/item/752

I do feel for some of the 4x4 drivers and yes the law is on there side but and I think this is key it was written when 4x4 were virtually unheard of and trials bikes were a new thing. The availability of 4x4 is overwhelming and every one seems to have one now, the tracks weren't designed for that amount of traffic.

Maybe they could pay a toll etc who knows, there is a Landowner near here with a purpose built off road track through his forrest, Not sure how much he charges though?

I've even seen groups of trials bikes coming down the 3peaks route to the aquaduct, I guess the've come up from Dent along the Craven way Wolds track! Is this even a green lane?

Long Causeway/Stanage Road is now an ankle breaking disgrace. I just cannot believe it has been allowed to be ripped apart as it has.

The Houndkirk Road (also known round here as the 'Roman Road') is 5 mins up the valley from me. At first I was horrified with the resurfacing work that had been done as shown in those photos on the DPFR website, but it has since been levelled off and flattened out, making it more easily passable on foot again and much less of an eyesore. Ironically, I have noticed that since the resurfacing I have seen far fewer 4X4s up there.

The really big problem with the Houndkirk area was the time trial track that the trail bikes had illegally worn into a large area of sensitive moorland on Burbage Moor, just North of the Houndkirk Road. After many failed attempts by the authorities to put a stop to it, they eventually had to fence the whole area off, provide stiled entrances and exits at each side of the area and thereby make it inaccessible to anything on wheels. That those sorts of lengths had to be resorted to because of the pig ignorance of a certain element of the off-roading community is astonishing really.

[bigfella]

I have a 4x4 (don't start, that's a different thread) and have enjoyed organised session on private land and would, I think, enjoy driving some of the trails at issue. But I don't because I don't think its acceptable. I also enjoy mountain biking but stick to legal trails which I know some might still object to. I don't however cycle down Jacobs ladder off Stanage because I don't think it's fair on people walking as it's so narrow (and because I would fall off and hurt myself).

As runners we do have restriction on organised events in that RO's must get permission even if it's on rights or way / access land. Many of the 4x4 groups are organised, commercial operations but don't seem to need any permisssion.

As for closing roads, Sheffield seems to have no problem making it impossible for anything other than buses and taxis to drive around the city so why is it so difficult in the Peak?