Another 'water' related one..

[daisy]

It's a good job I have no shame really...here goes:
One of the wide range of weird symptoms I've suffered from in the last couple of years is 'urinary urgency' and partial incontinence. I'm 43, never had kids and take my pelvic floor excersises quite seriously but this particular problem started quite suddenly in December 2009 (I was NOT running at the time). It comes and goes. I don't get stress incontinence.
Having struggled with this 'issue' for a while I finally gave in and took GP's advice to see a gynae.

So on Monday morning I got the following proffessional advice: Stop drinking so much fluid (2.2 l a day or thereabouts; no fizzy drinks, no caffeine, no alchohol - but really I'm not as dull as that sounds) and stop running ()

Apparently "my aging body is exhausted with all this running about" and I shouldn't keep "trying to do something I could do well at 25".

So I came away feeling about 20 years older than when I went in, ( Is 43 really that old?) and wondering about what you guys drink on a daily basis. Is 2.2 litres a HUGE amount? I didn't think my weekly mileage was particularily high, certainly compared to what a lot of runners on here do. (Max.30m a week)

Anyone got any better ideas? Am feeling utterly p##### (no pun intended) off about the medic's approach, but hey, he's the proffessional right?
Cheers,

[Chris K]

I think 2.2 litres is a lot if that excludes tea/coffee, fruit and vegetables, but for some people it may be OK. Bet you get a great deal of advice on this one!

[daisy]

I think 2.2 litres is a lot if that excludes tea/coffee, fruit and vegetables, but for some people it may be OK. Bet you get a great deal of advice on this one!

It does include a lot of decaff coffee...hey, I like the stuff! But that's my total fluid intake for the day. I'm not very good on the fruit and veg front to be honest, so there wouldn't be a lot to consider there...maybe 1 banana a day?
OH, and I like soup but didn't count that either; just stuff that went in a mug...

[protodoc]

Hi Daisy,
I'm a GP myself and this sounds like overactive bladder syndrome, see the following link:

http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Over...r-Syndrome.htm

One non-drug option is as you have said cut down on stimulants (caffeine, alcohol etc), you already do your pelvic floor exercises but another commonly tried option is "bladder training" where you force yourself to hold out for as long as you can before going to the toilet. It is supposed to desensitise the bladder a bit I think.
Hope you find the website useful and good luck with it!
Mark

[daisy]

Thanks Mark. I'll go and have a look at the link in a mo.

What i really want to hear I suppose is that I don't have to stop running...

[protodoc]

Hopefully not, it must be the "jiggling" motion of running that exacerbates the problem, hopefully with bladder training that will settle. Also your history is intermittent so that is a good sign that you are likely to respond well.

[daisy]

Just read the link, Mark. Rang lots of bells, so thanks again for pointing me in the right direction :thumbup:
Oddly, I don't really seem to suffer this much when out running. Certainly not as much as some of my running pals do who have kids...On the other hand this maybe becasue I take an 'insurance leak' as a matter of course these days...again, this bladder training article addresses that and I'm going to get religious about it!
It turns out I'm also Hyper-reflexive (didnt' use to be but am now...) - does a hyper-reflexive tendon reflex ever relate to a hyper-reflexive bladder?

[protodoc]

Never heard of it but then again I never say never in medicine, there's always the exception.....

[Alexandra]

Hi Daisy, 2 very important messages from me: (1) DON'T STOP RUNNING and (2) Don't have an operation unless you have tried every other possibility - they often make things worse, sometimes MUCH worse. Have you been checked for prolapse? Have you seen a specialist physio? Have you done a 24 hour fluid intake/output monitoring? Do you brace your core & pelvic muscles whenever you lift anything heavy?

I became aware of my prolapse a few years ago (I am 69 and have had one child - both risk factors). Now I have had a ring pessary fitted, drink less and avoid caffeinated drinks before going out. These have all helped tremendously. I still train with weights, but very carefully, and I regularly run up to 13 miles (hope to get up to 15 soon). I do still need to retire into the bushes during long runs or walks, but that seems to be pretty normal for older women. Initially I was very nervous that running might make things worse, and no professional could tell me whether it would or wouldn't. I don't think the research has been done.

Anything a medical professional tells you, you should IMO check carefully against what you can read on reputable sites on the internet. It is NOT the case that because they are doctors they know. Most modern GPs are deeply ignorant about pessaries, because patients have tended to be encouraged onto a conveyor belt towards operations. (In these cash-strapped days, that trend my be weakening.) Consultants and surgeons have an almost insane optimism about the operations they carry out. Maybe they have to be like that in order to do their work. One specialist physio, very helpful in other ways, told me I would probably have to give up not only running but WALKING!!! One registrar told me, when I objected that these operations have a 1 in 4 chance of leading to a 2nd, less successful op within 4 years, that actually the figures were worse - 1 in 2. And then at the end of the interview he said, "Well, if you find you want a PERMANENT solution, come back and discuss an op". Perhaps he thought it would be permanent because in 4 years I would be 73 and with any luck dead.

After several years I can say that running, short or long, up or down, fast or slow makes no difference whatever. (Obviously if I run with a full bladder, there may well be slight leakage, but that's a short term problem.) When weight training I can feel the stress of eg a chest press on my pelvic floor and I am very careful to brace it. It is a pity this advice is not routinely given to women starting weight training.

[daisy]

Wow, Alexandra - thats a brilliant post. Thanks so much for taking the time to put all that down - really appreciate it.
Promise I won't have an op! The Gynae didn't even suggest it - I honestly think he thought I was wasting his time with my trivial problems. However, I've jsut seen a GP on another issue and on hearing about the outcome of the 'consultation' she grimaced. I told her I wasn't going to pay any attention to the advice about stopping running and she said 'Good'.
I'm going to practise 'bladder training' - it seems a positive thing that I can get my head round and then see how it goes.
No they haven't done an intake/output test.
No one has suggested prolapses either, but I think that's becasue I'm 43 and haven't had children.
And yes, I brace! I dont' do weights or any gym work cos I just want to be out in the air and pattering about with the dog.

If I get nowhere with the retraining I'll ask about the prolapse thing.
Thanks so much for your input.

All the best,