Fellsman preparations

[AndyA]

i second what protodoc has posted , i was only looking to recce the night section as its my first time on the fellsman too, infact this is the first time ive considered recceying a event route i usually like hte aspect to it, what an event to start ooops. although regarding the bit of the route on open access land surely it should expected people will use the open access parts. i can see the point made of open threads and wouldnt recce the private land sections and certainly wouldnt want to jepodize any event but a small group going over access land ? im missing the point of access land that you shouldnt go on i think, by that reasoning its no better than private land isnt it ? i'll pm you back end of next week protodoc and see if you still a chat about a recce on the open access night bit ?

The point about race permissions is that whether or not it's access land is irrelevent. The landowner can't stop you doing a recce, whether it's a right of way on private land or it's access land. The point is that all land belongs to someone, and to get race insurance (via FRA or otherwise) it is usually mandatory to get landowners permission. If the landowners gets a snot on because hordes of runners are coming through every weekend, despite being asked not to then they can easily stop the use of their land on race day.

No permission=no insurance=no race.

Like i said; do what you will but keep it off this thread; use the PM system.

[old un]

Thanks andy didn't know that , I've not had any dealings with this side of events. We live and learn .

[Stolly]

Haha. Just in case the land owner is reading the fellsman thread in the recce section of the fell runners association forum

Now everyone here is faced with owning up to recceing against the race organisers wishesor sneakily doing it on the side.

To be honest I kind of think the new route across middle tongue probably reduces the need for a recce as just running the south side of the ridgeline with langstrothdale to your right looks to be the line anyway. That said if the weathers crap and/or its dark when you get there, and its your first time doing the fellsman, and you're on your own with no other runners in sight... You might just wish you'd recce'd the route first!

[Masham Man]

To be honest I kind of think the new route across middle tongue probably reduces the need for a recce as just running the south side of the ridgeline with langstrothdale to your right looks to be the line anyway. That said if the weathers crap and/or its dark when you get there, and its your first time doing the fellsman, and you're on your own with no other runners in sight... You might just wish you'd recce'd the route first!

Of Course piece of piss, silly me! Wish I had your wisdom stolly.

[Stolly]

Of Course piece of piss, silly me! Wish I had your wisdom stolly.

I did have my tongue just a little bit wedged in my cheek

[Mark L]

l

Er.. what? No comprendez

Worked it out yet?

[Stolly]

Worked it out yet?

Mark L, the whole thing about the recceing of the fellsman route is a catch 22 situation, especially over Fleet Moss and Middle Tongue where they've changed the route this year. I was both trying to put the point of view that everyone is able to go there under CRoW access but at the same time recognise the position the race organiser is in. At the time of my 'no comprendez' post I hadn't realised that the race organiser had asked fellsmaners not to recce that area either.

But here's the catch; pretty much all of the serious competitors at the fellsman will absolutely want to recce that bit as a slow line there could cost you an hour off your time or more, especially in crap weather. And alot of those doing the race for the first time and/or worry about their navigational skills will want to do it too. The old route through that bit had a good short cut after the (old) middle tongue checkpoint but if you didn't know that shortcut generally the (old) alternative was to follow a wall and fence that zig zagged all over the shop, over difficult lumpy ground to boot. I've done the old short cut and the old not shortcut and the difference felt very long indeed (but I have no idea what the actual difference was). And a route change makes me feel inclined to recce it again. More to the point most of the fellsman horror stories come from this part of the route, partly because of the swamps, peat groughs and tussocks, and partly because psychologically its a really tough bit to get through.

But the race organiser has asked us not to recce that stretch..... but under CRoW we're perfectly entitled to.... and getting lost on that ridgeline during the race in crap weather or after dark won't be pleasant..... and a good chunk of fellsmanners will recce it anyway, if they haven't already.

One things for sure though is that the particular landowner(s) won't be reading this forum about it so, if there is anywhere to mull over this recce or not dilemma, surely its here? The other thing is that ridge line is not over populated with walkers at the best of times, let alone runners, and at this time of year (sneaky fellsman recce-ers aside) there will be very few people up there, and that includes the local farmer(s). What sheep that are up there won't be early lambers thats for sure and there won't be any grouse being shot till August!

Finally as a resident of the Dales that spends all of his time running in the hills pretty much all over the place in the south and south west Dales it kind of irks me that I should in some way not run somewhere because of a race I might not be in. I didn't do the fellsman last year so ergo me running up there last year would be fine and dandy but, as I'm doing it this year, its not.... and yet pretty much any other ridgeline in 'my' 500 square miles of the Dales is fine.

Like I said its a Catch 22. I bet you recce it

[swimmingdunce]

One things for sure though is that the particular landowner(s) won't be reading this forum about it

How do you know this? I don't know who owns the land we're talking about (National Trust? National Park), but how do you know that an employee or supporter isn't a visitor to this site and is feeding it back to the decision makers?

To me it is commonsense, we shouldn't be discussing doing something on a public forum that we have specifically been asked not to do. It jeopardises the race for everyone.

[Stolly]

How do you know this? I don't know who owns the land we're talking about (National Trust? National Park), but how do you know that an employee or supporter isn't a visitor to this site and is feeding it back to the decision makers?

To me it is commonsense, we shouldn't be discussing doing something on a public forum that we have specifically been asked not to do. It jeopardises the race for everyone.

Discussing something jeopardises absolutely nothing

[Mark L]

I bet you recce it

I don't often actually LOL at forum posts - but I did then!
You're dead right!

Just coz I'm an offender too doesn't change the argument though!

Cheers.