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Thread: Clubs and Disciplinary Matters

  1. #91
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    Re: Clubs and Disciplinary Mat

    Interest that Wenger takes off the young Alex Oxlade Chamberlain to protect him against United today as he is 'only young' yet 60,000 Arsenal fans and the captain disagree

    Looked like this forum thread :w00t:

  2. #92
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    In its attempt to keep the rules simple, which most members wish, the FRA decided that 99.99% of its members did not actually need a specific Rule, bearing in mind the subservience of the FRA to English Law, spelling out that when you attain the age of 18 you cease to be a junior.
    and we now have a race that thinks it's 19
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    and we now have a race that thinks it's 19
    I saw that too. Somebody please explain.
    Martyn Price
    North Leeds Fell Runners

  4. #94
    Senior Member FellJunior's Avatar
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    To clarify:
    18 year old athletes running as U19 are permitted to take part in fell races up to 10Kms.
    Lee Mill is 10.7Kms (and part of a 4 race series), hence 19 on the day if that's what the RO chooses to do.

    It is utter rubbish to suggest that they are no longer treated as adults.
    Last edited by FellJunior; 01-08-2019 at 11:59 PM.
    Going downhill fast - until I fell over

  5. #95
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    I just read through this thread from start to finish (well I'm not on the forum very much nowadays and junior race limits were always much to my chagrin).

    My two main thoughts/ observations on this, with the benefit of hindsight having been a junior fellrunner, left the the sport of running and then come back as a senior.

    1) I used to race underage all the time. Not on the advice of a coach, not with my parents' permission (they were generally oblivious and just used to chuck me £20 and I'd disappear to the Lakes or Wales for the weekend) but just because I wanted to do longer races. I did a fair few AMs and ALs up and down the country and generally managed to be fine. There was a bit of culture around some juniors who regularly did this - there were some ROs who were down to let juniors run, some who asked you to run without a number and sometimes I'd just say I was 18 and hope they wouldn't notice the little bum-fluffed moustache I had struggling to grow. I think it was about more than performance for some of us though - I was by no means a great junior - usually in the bottom 30% at Junior Champs races but I had some good runs here and there. I just preferred super long races and found the bigger climbs and environments more exciting. My body could handle the races because the pace was easy and for the most part, the DOMs kept my training mileage quite low.

    There were guys like Sean Carey from Tod who was really successful at a young age and did all sorts of races then just dropped off the face of the earth...but similarly there were lads who never raced underage and stuck to the circuit that I don't see anymore or you see that they just ran 3.45 at the London Marathon, clearly having fallen off the bandwagon.

    When I compare it to the people that used to race at the same level as me, lots of them are burnt out now since becoming seniors and don't run anymore, some have plateaued out and then you get the odd runner like Marc Scott who is just incredible. In some ways I think that the constant track work and racing circuit that most juniors race on can be just as damaging, it's less friendly, more results-orientated and more anxiety inducing. I just liked the laid back atmosphere at a low-key North Wales AM. Ultimately it has definitely helped me as a senior runner - I just found that I had a pretty good endurance base from all the 'over-distance' stuff I'd done as a kid and once I grew out a bit I somehow made a jump in ability.

    2) I vividly remember Robbie Simpson turning up at the Carnethy 5 in 2009 and being refused entry to the senior race. I think he'd pre-entered and then got turned down on the day because he wasn't the right age or something. He went on to win the junior race there by a hatful of minutes but given his trajectory (a year or so later he'd won Snowdon) surely it would have been sensible to have let him run in the senior races.

    Just echoing what some people have said already - there's no one size fits all approach to it.
    Trying to plod up hills every day slightly faster than the day before

  6. #96
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    Not that I'm particularly quick now of course, or that doing the extra-long stuff helped me catch up to the likes of Marc Scott and Sean.

    Certainly though it's given me some strength which I've been able to utilise as a senior runner - I'm probably a much better standard of senior runner than I was as a junior and I think a lot of that is due to the longer stuff.
    Trying to plod up hills every day slightly faster than the day before

  7. #97
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FellJunior View Post
    18 year old athletes are permitted to take part in fell races up to 10Kms.
    Lee Mill is 10.7Kms, hence 19 on the day.
    Jim

    https://fellrunner.org.uk/documents/...2002-11-18.pdf

    Page 1 - see 1(d) which refers you to Page 3 Table 2

    That clearly states that the 10km limit is for 16 & 17 year olds.

    18 year olds can run in any race and have done including the Three Peaks, Fairfield, Anniversary Waltz... to name a few I know of and they can also run the pairs and nav legs in the National Fell relays.

    I think someone has confused the issue due to the FRA Junior top age now being U19. These FRA Junior races are capped at 10km even for the 18 year olds purely because the category includes 17 & 18 year olds.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  8. #98
    Senior Member FellJunior's Avatar
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    Perhaps so, or was there a specific local reason that 19 was chosen? Who knows or cares. After all it's the RO's decision, who he decides to let enter his race. He can exclude U23 if he chooses, which probably would have been a good idea given last night's weather conditions.
    But, hey, at least you managed to get a snipe in at GB on a thread that's 7 years old.
    Going downhill fast - until I fell over

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by FellJunior View Post
    Perhaps so, or was there a specific local reason that 19 was chosen? Who knows or cares. After all it's the RO's decision, who he decides to let enter his race. He can exclude U23 if he chooses, which probably would have been a good idea given last night's weather conditions.
    But, hey, at least you managed to get a snipe in at GB on a thread that's 7 years old.
    The rules are clear. The 10k limit is for 16 & 17 year olds. If you can find it.

    and as if I would have a snipe at Graham!

    Actually the case was for simplicity back then, and if you look now at the rules, it isn't simple.

    If you are a runner looking for the rules, they are actually in the Organisers Sections and "hidden" in a document called "Requirements and Rules for Race Organisers."

    So bravo to Graham's request for keeping it simple which might avoid sages of the sport getting confused.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  10. #100
    Senior Member FellJunior's Avatar
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    If it bothers you so much then ask the RO, why he decided at the very last minute to exclude the U19 age group from his race, because that is the effect of '19 on the day' as I tried (possibly badly) to explain for Martyn P. (Your patronising comment is duly noted). It probably has far more to do with the urgency of the situation on the day, than misinterpreting the rules. I don't know or care - it was a very testing evening for everyone involved given the extremely variable and localised weather conditions. Studying the race results will give you a clue as to their effect, but the main thing is that everyone was accounted for, marshals included.

    If you think the rules require further clarification/tidying up then make a formal argued case to the FRA. I agree there is still a deal of ambiguity in the published rules. Unfortunately, seizing on this race as an example doesn't stand up given the circumstances.
    Going downhill fast - until I fell over

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