Treadmills

[CL]

Are you sure?

Why is it harder to run on a treadmill inclined than flat? Think you are wrong here CL.

Harder? We'd have to conduct a fair test which would be very difficult to do. Each run would have to be for the same time at full effort, and power would have to be measured.

Anyway the original point I was making was about gravity and you cannot mimick it by running on the spot which is what happens on a treadmill.

[nikalas]

Harder? We'd have to conduct a fair test which would be very difficult to do. Each run would have to be for the same time at full effort, and power would have to be measured.

Although I agree to a certain extent as to the limitations of treadmills I wouldn't go as far as to say you're wasting your time on them if that's all you've got available.... Ingrid Kristiansen did all her winter training on one and didn't do too badly on it. That said, for mimicking hill climbing I personally think a stepper ramped up to full whack is far more effective. I used one when I lived in London and was training for the Himalayan 100 and it did the job.

I am intrigued though CL why the test would have to be at full effort and power would have to be measured. I would suggest that a better experimental model would be for a group of athletes to first run at a sustainable pace (10k pace would work) without any increase in gradient for a set period (say 20 minutes). During that run, heart rate and perceived exertion (using the Borg Scale) would be recorded every minute. You could then repeat the test a suitable amount of time later allowing for recovery and controlling for manageable variables. This time though the gradient would increase by 0.5% each minute. I'm sure you'd see from both heart rate and Borg data that the effort required is greater.

[TheReverand]

I find working the cross trainer hard for 30mins, works the same sets of muscles Id be using going up a steep hill! I usually set the thing at level 12 and once warmed up, maintain a constant rpm of 85-90, Its quite hard work. Then get on the treadmill and use it for speed work, not hills. Id imagine the stepper would be more effective at replecating hill work. Im no expert though ha

[Deadlegs]

.

Anyway the original point I was making was about gravity and you cannot mimick it by running on the spot which is what happens on a treadmill.

Yes you can. On a treadmill with no incline the tread is moving underneath you and you have to run at the same speed to stay still. If there is an incline you are running up a hill which is moving underneath you and you must run up to stay still. You must fight gravity in the same way as if you were moving and the hill was stationary.

[CL]

Yes you can. On a treadmill with no incline the tread is moving underneath you and you have to run at the same speed to stay still. If there is an incline you are running up a hill which is moving underneath you and you must run up to stay still. You must fight gravity in the same way as if you were moving and the hill was stationary.

No it isn't true. If you are running on a treadmill that is going 10mph and you switched it off and continued at the same effort you wouldn't run at 10mph; your speed would be slower. In regard to an inclined tread you aren't fighting gravity in a similar way to actually running up a hill because your body isn't going UP; therefore the results would not be equal.

[stevefoster]

Surely in the absence of any form of training, a treadmill is better than nothing. Each to their own, i'd rather run or walk outside and do some squats and stair climbs personally.

[CL]

Although I agree to a certain extent as to the limitations of treadmills I wouldn't go as far as to say you're wasting your time on them if that's all you've got available.... Ingrid Kristiansen did all her winter training on one and didn't do too badly on it. That said, for mimicking hill climbing I personally think a stepper ramped up to full whack is far more effective. I used one when I lived in London and was training for the Himalayan 100 and it did the job.

I am intrigued though CL why the test would have to be at full effort and power would have to be measured. I would suggest that a better experimental model would be for a group of athletes to first run at a sustainable pace (10k pace would work) without any increase in gradient for a set period (say 20 minutes). During that run, heart rate and perceived exertion (using the Borg Scale) would be recorded every minute. You could then repeat the test a suitable amount of time later allowing for recovery and controlling for manageable variables. This time though the gradient would increase by 0.5% each minute. I'm sure you'd see from both heart rate and Borg data that the effort required is greater.

Kristiansen did use a treadmill for her winter training and she also XC skied. That was sufficient for her because the weaknesses in the treadmill were overcome by the skiing. Anyway when nutkey asked the question he/she was concerned with training for running uphill and I gave him/her what I thought would give him/her the best results in the circumstances.

Your experimental model isn't sound for nearly every reason you mentioned. For instance how would the Borg scale and the measurement of heart-rate prove which exercise was HARDER?

[CL]

Surely in the absence of any form of training, a treadmill is better than nothing. Each to their own, i'd rather run or walk outside and do some squats and stair climbs personally.

But Steve that wasn't the question. Nutkey has plenty of facilities to use for training but no hill. He/she wanted to know if he/she was wasting his/her time running on an inclined treadmill. I think he/she is and would do far better working out with weights.

[Deadlegs]

Sorry CL you are wrong. Imagine a treadmill 100m long on an incline. If you stop running you go down. The work required to stay in the same place is the same as would be needed to run up the treadmill. It would require more than to run the same distance on a flat treadmill. The reason? Gravity.


I think.

[stevefoster]

But Steve that wasn't the question. Nutkey has plenty of facilities to use for training but no hill. He/she wanted to know if he/she was wasting his/her time running on an inclined treadmill. I think he/she is and would do far better working out with weights.

I agree christopher, that's what i'd rather do, don't like treadmills. Light weights and high reps or heavy and low or a mixture?