Hypothermia

[alwaysinjured]

I did Ennerdale a few years back. I arrived at CP 3 - the Tarn - inside the cut-off but severely blistering and informed the marshalls that I was DNFing and would make my way down to the what I think is Black Sail Hut and back down the road to the Finish.
It took me 2.5 hours to get back - it was an unbelievably long way.
I did stop and wash my feet, changed my socks and jogged it, but I also made the error of crossing the lake at he top and running down the South edge, thinking it would be quicker, but with blistered feet I may as well have been going over Kirk Fell

I'm only really posting this because I've done quite a bit of racing and see myself as ticking the ER box, but that was another level for me.
You are so remote at CP3 that you almost may as well complete the race.

the weather was great, I had a smashing day out and the 2 guys from CLEM that I drove up with completed well. I had no one to blame but me.

First time I did duddon was a championship year - 93? 94? - clag was down even below the bottom of harter, let alone the top, and I think hardknott pass was clagged out too. Apparently quite a big group just carried on over hardknott (top) and it was hours and hours before they got back. I had a pretty dismal time trying to find my way round for the first time (5.30) or something - and they got back well after me. So even though the RO will know they had left Harter: they then disappeared into a black hole (in mosedale somewhere?! and DNFed some hours later.

Hard to know what the RO , can or should do:In that case , an extra check at hardknott passmaybe, but even knowing "north of hardknott" is a huge area to look. So implying the RO can do anything meaningful because of a group of missing runners is optimistic.

Hypothermia is strange. I have been hypothermic on what looked a gorgeous day from a valley, and not that cold on the top, but despite all the layers of hats, gloves and so on, just could not get warm till I got down.

[IanDarkpeak]

Edale can be foul. I have done in serious ice and snow, horizontal sleet, and oddly in baking sun too! If it was around the mid nineties lefty, it could been a day I did it which I remember as particularly cold!

It kind of proves a point. Having access to a safety tent and warming up stuff, particularly at a pinch point on a course can save a life.

Edale cross is just such a place, so would the col from ill bell to high street, so would the col from causey to sail, or sail to eel. So would black sail on wasdale. Without getting into desparate ground, it is hard to miss them, provided you do not drop off steeply on either side. So easy(er) to find. A lot of the tops and ridges down are so wide you can miss the top completely. Judith? High Street? A lot of the cols are narrow.

Edale always has managed to get a lot of marshalls out. Not so kentmere,sailbeck etc.

The infamous Skyline in question was covered by Marshals and MR, all the CP had shelters/first aid kits. even so Edale cross was so over run with Hypothermic runners that Kinder team was called out to help evac runners.

I'm not disagreeing about Cols being an obvious spot and you probably have more local knowledge than me and that is always important but cols are also the windiest spots on most ridges, how many "Windy gaps" are there? Not the best place to seek shelter.

Can you not get the local MR out to the wilder CP's we(Woodhead MRT) use them as training days to work on logistics and comm skills.

[alwaysinjured]

The infamous Skyline in question was covered by Marshals and MR, all the CP had shelters/first aid kits. even so Edale cross was so over run with Hypothermic runners that Kinder team was called out to help evac runners.

I'm not disagreeing about Cols being an obvious spot and you probably have more local knowledge than me and that is always important but cols are also the windiest spots on most ridges, how many "Windy gaps" are there? Not the best place to seek shelter.

Can you not get the local MR out to the wilder CP's we(Woodhead MRT) use them as training days to work on logistics and comm skills.

I agree with windy cols Ian. But siting at easy places to find can be a problem except at cols.
High street for example is a big plateau and in clag it looks pan flat. So very easy to miss, as is the wall - I managed that one year, and had to backtrack in the clag. I think judith may well have missed it completely, before heading on in the direction of Knott

Also in clag you can misunderstand which tops to traverse and which to go over on a ridge, so siting on a minor top like ill bell may be a problem too. So the cols are the easiest thing to find by using a general bearing, and letting the land take you to the col by following the line of least gradient on the right general bearing. In a well pitched tent the cold is not such a problem.

It is just a thought for very remote places on the most hazardous races. Not a general panacea for every race.

I came at that suggestion only for looking for common factors on the latest fatalities, which are both apparently deliberately going off route to find safety at the far point of a remote course. So accepting it would take hours and hours to find them, even when you know when to start searching -something for them to find, might just have stood a chance with one of them. Perhaps. Maybe. Possibly...

[IanDarkpeak]

Just a point about calling MR out. They would much rather come out to a false alarm than a body retrieval and they would prefer an early callout to a late one. 2 hours of extra day light is worth 8 hours in the dark.

[Kanga]

I have just come home from an evening running around the city centre in reasonably warm conditions. Once I got off the train I started to feel cold, achey/shivery, and a bit groggy. Is this hypothermia? Either way it's made me have a think about how I run.

[Mike T]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-bicycle-ride

Interesting story, showing in particular how the sufferer may feel there is no real problem.

[IanDarkpeak]

I have just come home from an evening running around the city centre in reasonably warm conditions. Once I got off the train I started to feel cold, achey/shivery, and a bit groggy. Is this hypothermia? Either way it's made me have a think about how I run.

Hi Kanga

Only just seen this, it's too difficult to say with out more details, you may have been a bit run down any way but certainly shivering is an early sign. If you ran hard and didn't get changed you would have cooled down quicker, also did you take on any food. If you had low blood sugar that won't have helped.

[IanDarkpeak]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-bicycle-ride

Interesting story, showing in particular how the sufferer may feel there is no real problem.

That's a good piece Mike, shows how people will not admit to being ill despite showing all the symptoms.

[IanDarkpeak]

Just lifted this from the FRA FB page.

This great piece of kit is half price inc P&P is is definitely a life saver.

I carry one on wild runs even in summer as they are so small.

Worth splashing out for the £7 price tag.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventure-Me.../dp/B000WXX0JS

[matthew]

I'd agree. Never used mine in anger but still carry it in the summer just in case. They tend to be on the kit list for MMs instead of blankets.