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Thread: Overtraining

  1. #11
    Master Dynamo Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Overtraining

    Quote Originally Posted by christopher leigh View Post
    Phone the surgery and ask for a print out of the results. This will show what they tested and didn't test for. On the vitamin front I would take something with a full complx of vitamins and minerals rather than one with just a few things in it.

    The only other things I can think of that are causing your lack of performance are not enough sleep and being on some dodgy diet, like atkins, that deprives you of carbohydrate.
    No dodgy diets I'll give the surgery a ring.

  2. #12
    Master Fleeter's Avatar
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    Re: Overtraining

    Stress and running do not mix for me, i'd just lay off the racing for a bit like you have said and just get back to enjoying running again and not worrying about pace or distance for a while, you'll soon be back

  3. #13
    Senior Member AlanB's Avatar
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    Re: Overtraining

    Hi Dan - oh dear !!
    I can sympathise with you as - around 5 years ago - my performances started to go downhill, but they were linked to an irritable tummy when running.
    So, I switched to Mountain Biking - competitively too - short and long (up to 24h). The biking helped my tummy and meant I could race hard but additionally it gave me a good boost to hard speed work - as Noel suggests.
    My legs then felt better when I tried to run, but alas the tummy wasn't good.
    I then joined a local road bike club and worked up to their (very) fast training rides. There's no way I could have kept up with them at the start but now I find it easy.
    These hard road sessions are the single best thing I've ever had to boost my running.
    My quads have come on leaps and bounds (even though I always used to do 8h+ runs with relative ease) and clearly top end speed (uphill running) is now easy.
    My tummy is now sorted, so I am mixing very hard road riding with very hard hill running sessions. I don't run more than 1-2 times a week but have never run as well.
    I am a firm believer of the downsides to over training. I seemingly train very little, but every now and again I throw in the odd 30+mile run and that just keeps the long distance ticking over (it's hard to lose long distance endurance as someone above intimates).
    The other big help to my running has been stretching. What with more cycling my hamstrings were shortening and hence running downhill I found I couldn't really stretch out the legs. I've got that nailed now.

    Conclusion ? Well, I've prattled on a bit but I thoroughly recommend short very hard training mixed with the occasional very long run. Not much chance of overtraining with no more than 3 sessions a week. My legs are physically empty after most of my training sessions now when they never used to be (when I just drifted along doing 10 mile runs here and there just to get the miles in).

    Also - train on no food. Use food for races.

  4. #14
    Master Dynamo Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Overtraining

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanB View Post
    Hi Dan - oh dear !!
    I can sympathise with you as - around 5 years ago - my performances started to go downhill, but they were linked to an irritable tummy when running.
    So, I switched to Mountain Biking - competitively too - short and long (up to 24h). The biking helped my tummy and meant I could race hard but additionally it gave me a good boost to hard speed work - as Noel suggests.
    My legs then felt better when I tried to run, but alas the tummy wasn't good.
    I then joined a local road bike club and worked up to their (very) fast training rides. There's no way I could have kept up with them at the start but now I find it easy.
    These hard road sessions are the single best thing I've ever had to boost my running.
    My quads have come on leaps and bounds (even though I always used to do 8h+ runs with relative ease) and clearly top end speed (uphill running) is now easy.
    My tummy is now sorted, so I am mixing very hard road riding with very hard hill running sessions. I don't run more than 1-2 times a week but have never run as well.
    I am a firm believer of the downsides to over training. I seemingly train very little, but every now and again I throw in the odd 30+mile run and that just keeps the long distance ticking over (it's hard to lose long distance endurance as someone above intimates).
    The other big help to my running has been stretching. What with more cycling my hamstrings were shortening and hence running downhill I found I couldn't really stretch out the legs. I've got that nailed now.

    Conclusion ? Well, I've prattled on a bit but I thoroughly recommend short very hard training mixed with the occasional very long run. Not much chance of overtraining with no more than 3 sessions a week. My legs are physically empty after most of my training sessions now when they never used to be (when I just drifted along doing 10 mile runs here and there just to get the miles in).

    Also - train on no food. Use food for races.
    It's funny you should mention cycling because as a teenager I rode to an extremely high level. I think that's part of the reason I'm finding my running regression so frustrating, you think to yourself "I've won this and that on a bike and rode on this squad, but I'm completely shite at running!". To be fair I had a solid ten years of abusing myself between stopping cycling and starting running so maybe I've ruined my CV system...

    I do think cycling could be part of the solution though.

  5. #15
    Member London Standard's Avatar
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    Re: Overtraining

    My advice - for what it's worth - is to stop racing, stop measuring your runs and just run for fun. You love it - so do it for it's own sake and not for results. Run slowly, take in the view; walk if you feel like it. Hope you get your mojo back soon!

  6. #16
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Re: Overtraining

    You can't go off your time in fell races either. The times are all going to be down at the moment as the weather has been so wet. You could quite easily lose 5 mins per hour dependent on the terrain.

    If you want a regular check of your fitness, find a 4 - 6 mile route you can tempo every now and again on road. You will have some consistency to make a comparison with then.

    Chris was on the right track I thought, but it does seem like you have that covered.

    Feroglobin
    http://www.vitabiotics.com/Feroglobi...d_proinfo.aspx
    is a decent supplement to take.

    In general, I have to say that when I train fast I run faster and I've had a lack of tempo in the last year or so and done much more longer slower stuff. That means I can get round a 2 - 3 hour run fine, but I was in bits after a 5K trail a few weeks ago that was 22:15 and nearly 2 minutes of my best time.

    So having missed Duddon, I've decided to get some more tempo in for a few weeks and see how it goes, then try and get a better balance.

  7. #17
    Master Dynamo Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Overtraining

    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    You can't go off your time in fell races either. The times are all going to be down at the moment as the weather has been so wet. You could quite easily lose 5 mins per hour dependent on the terrain.

    If you want a regular check of your fitness, find a 4 - 6 mile route you can tempo every now and again on road. You will have some consistency to make a comparison with then.

    Chris was on the right track I thought, but it does seem like you have that covered.

    Feroglobin
    http://www.vitabiotics.com/Feroglobi...d_proinfo.aspx
    is a decent supplement to take.

    In general, I have to say that when I train fast I run faster and I've had a lack of tempo in the last year or so and done much more longer slower stuff. That means I can get round a 2 - 3 hour run fine, but I was in bits after a 5K trail a few weeks ago that was 22:15 and nearly 2 minutes of my best time.

    So having missed Duddon, I've decided to get some more tempo in for a few weeks and see how it goes, then try and get a better balance.

    Cheers I'll have a look at that supplement. I've asked the docs for a print out too 10 the robbing b#stards. Anyone got any ideas what I should be looking for?

  8. #18
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    Re: Overtraining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo Dan View Post
    To be fair I had a solid ten years of abusing myself between stopping cycling and starting running
    I dread to think how many socks there are under your bed )

  9. #19
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    Re: Overtraining

    It's very difficult on the forum to give advice to people who ask for it because often they don't tell the whole story. In general though I'd say if one is doing all the usual things in training at the same body weight and the average pace has dropped daily by a significant amount in a short period of time, then something is wrong. So if you normally 'cruise' around your 10 mile road runs in 60 minutes and now it's taking 80 minutes or even 70 minutes then it's time for a check up.

    The term 'overtraining' refers to something very specific. For instance an athlete's performance may drop because of anemia; that in itself doesn't constitute overtraining because overtraining wasn't the cause.

    The best definition of 'overtraining' was given by Mike Mentzer some time ago. He said it was doing more training than the minimum amount required to achieve a goal. So in running terms if ultimate fitness for a particular athlete is brought about by 5 hours of carefully selected exercise a week and you go out and do 10 hours a week, then that is overtraining. It also means selecting the best type of exercises from those available. So if you only run to run you might need an hour a day but if you combine it with other methods you may only need 45 minutes a day.

    Thinking like this not only frees up valuable time but makes one a better athlete which is the whole point of competition.
    Last edited by CL; 15-06-2012 at 02:47 PM.

  10. #20
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    Re: Overtraining

    I have a plan. I'm going to run the Great Lakes tomorrow, but that will be my last race for about a month. I can't rest completely I will go mad so I'm planning to spend two weeks alternating a 20 minute very gentle jog one day and a gentle bike ride the next.

    After that two weeks I'll start running properly, but no speed work just run on the fells with the club and on my own at a steady pace. Then I'll do a park run and see where I am....

    In the meantime I'm going to get a print out of my blood test, talk to someone who knows what they're on about and start taking WPs supplement suggestion.

    What does anyone think about the plan? Does it sound sensible or should I rest? How much fitness will I lose?

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