Great Lakes - where did I go ?

[LissaJous]

Here we go again... I was about to warn you Dan, anything you say on here will be a) misconstrued and b) taken down and used as evidence against you. You and about 150 others I suspect!

I'm pretty sure you've been up Little Stand twice from the description. If you'd gone down to the road the first time, at Gaitscale Close as Amex says, you could have gone up to Wrynose pass and taken the path to Blisco. If you'd done so, you might even have come across another runner returning from Hardknott Pass after a rescue mission.

[dantodman]

I can't believe you even attempted a race in those conditions without having reccied the route first, or having the necessary navigation skills to do the race.

You have made 2 assumptions there.

[IainR]

I think you are being overly touchy.. getting lost doesn't necessarily mean no nav skills.. it's just good to know when the race is over and head down to safety.. in a fell running career most of us will get lost at some point.. nav skills or not, that's just the heat of racing..

Though I do hope he gave his dibber back..

[dantodman]

Here we go again... I was about to warn you Dan, anything you say on here will be a) misconstrued and b) taken down and used as evidence against you. You and about 150 others I suspect!

I'm pretty sure you've been up Little Stand twice from the description. If you'd gone down to the road the first time, at Gaitscale Close as Amex says, you could have gone up to Wrynose pass and taken the path to Blisco. If you'd done so, you might even have come across another runner returning from Hardknott Pass after a rescue mission.

Thanks sounds about right and dont worry I am big enough to look after myself, I have lived and learnt.

I was in a potentially bad situation and glad I was also big enough to realise when it was time to get off the mountain and back to civilisation.

As for Colin what a hero, I think he had probably gone past by then anyway.


Dan

[dantodman]

I think you are being overly touchy.. getting lost doesn't necessarily mean no nav skills.. it's just good to know when the race is over and head down to safety.. in a fell running career most of us will get lost at some point.. nav skills or not, that's just the heat of racing..

Though I do hope he gave his dibber back..

Of course I did, I even dibbed in, also as I got a lift i avoided the last river crossing.


Dan

[fozzy]

Seems a bit harsh.

Rob Jebb himself could've got lost in those conditions. Morgan Donnelly apparently missed a checkpoint.

Well done for entering Dan and giving it a go. A proper challenge.

I shall clarify why I posted that. Firstly what other runners did/didn't do is irrelevant in this case, we are being specific.

The OP clearly stated he was following runners up Swinsty or Stonesty Gill (this is an assumption, but the OP stated he crossed both the Esk and Lingcove Beck), where he lost sight of said runners and then "wandered around", or in his own words:

"believe I went too far right and off track, I followed east (but feel I may have drifted too far south) for some time avoiding various rocky outcrops. Some point later i thought i had gone too high and decided to descend and to see if i could find any other runners. Once I came out of the cloud I had reached the edge of a valley. There was a wall which had a Sheep gate on and there was a ruin not too far away. I then decided I was too low and turned back uphill following the wall"

Even as a very average navigator, my instincts would have been to (a) get the compass out straight away at the top of the climb in order to make sure that I headed in the correct direction (even if not the best line) for Blisco and (b) attempted to relocate, again using the compass.

I admit that I do not know that particular area of the lakes well, so don't know how easy it would be to relocate, but it has been shown that most people will move around in circles when lost/in the dark (actually the study was done with blindfolded people) - because our natural instincts try to self correct and take over and we don't move in a straight line, even if we think we are. Using the compass would have ensured you at least moved in one direction instead of wandering aimlessly.

Yes, the OP should be applauded for realising that the time had come to get off the hill and the sense to do so, before it got very dangerous, but to be honest you should not put yourself in that position.

As for "having a go" and it "being a proper challenge" - I think you need to think about this statement - if you don't have the necessary skills to do a race, then you should not attempt it.

I was actually offered a number (on a transfer from a clubmate), but upon seeing the weather and the fact that I hadn't reccied the course, I realised that it might be beyond my abilities and so did not take up the offer, as to do the race might have put myself and others (marshals, other runners, mountain rescue) in danger.

[IainR]

I admit that I do not know that particular area of the lakes well, so don't know how easy it would be to relocate,

It wouldn't be easy. Even where there are paths its quite easy to lose in the rocks in a number of places and lots of fairly pathless running. Fair do's to the RO for letting the race go on, it was a brave call. He put a lot of trust in the runners which was good to see.

Its probably one of the harder of the lakes races to navigate on, well of those that I've done or know anyway and if you get lost in a number of places you'll drop down a long way from the start.. totally in another valley system.

[fozzy]

It wouldn't be easy. Even where there are paths its quite easy to lose in the rocks in a number of places and lots of fairly pathless running. Fair do's to the RO for letting the race go on, it was a brave call. He put a lot of trust in the runners which was good to see.

Its probably one of the harder of the lakes races to navigate on, well of those that I've done or know anyway and if you get lost in a number of places you'll drop down a long way from the start.. totally in another valley system.

Hence the need to get the compass out early. I suspect I would have had it out and been using it from the descent from Slight Side all the way to Blisco, even in good weather.

Since I started orienteering at the end of last year, I've a new found respect for being able to take a bearing and follow it whilst running at speed. I'm also rapidly learning when I need to stop and make sure that my nav is correct - the traffic light system is good here.

[LissaJous]

I'm not going through every detail of Fozzy's post, but will say that I was thinking of posting about the lost in the mist / going round in circles problem myself. That's why I'm pretty sure Dan was on Little Stand all along. So yes, you need to get a compass out, otherwise you think you'e travelled a few km but you're actually pretty much where you were to start with.

From the splits, a whole load of people at Slight Side at about the same time as Dan have had a whole load of trouble getting to Blisco, with Dan not the only one to DNF as a result. We were also under safety instructions to stay in groups, remember. Dan, what was the visibility like when you crossed the Esk? When I was there you could actually see a few hundred metres.

[L.F.F.]

we are being specific.

We’re not being so specific. We’re talking about issues generally – you said if you don’t have the skills, you shouldn’t enter the race.

The guy comes on here asking a simple, friendly question about his experience and he gets some pompous crap in reply.

You don’t have to be a navigation expert to enter these races and he got into a bad situation, but dealt with it. Could’ve happened to anybody. Maybe he should’ve done some things differently, but once he was disorientated, with bad weather and not much landscape to refer to, it’s not surprising he ended up a bit lost.

As I said, well done for having the courage to give it a go. A proper fell running challenge.