Heart rate theory

[ZootHornRollo]

This is with respect to cycling really but it's largely the same score with running, so here goes.

At my spin classes (which are more like group turbo sessions) we use Suunto heart rate monitors and their five-zone system which is calibrated by percentages of max heart rate.
I estimated my MaxHR a year or two ago by doing a sort of self-inflicted lactate threshold test, which gave me a LTHR of 165.
The Suunto zones put your LTHR at 85% of max, the border between zones 3 & 4. (Zone 4-5 border is 92%.)
So in order to set my zones I put my max at 194.

Now, I just did a class where I pushed v.hard and recorded an average HR of 178 (91% of estimated max) over 53 minutes.
Isolating the last 30 mins the average was higher, something like 181.
Now, I've got all sorts of Qns:

1. Does this mean I need to readjust my HR zones up? Accepted advice on how to estimate LTHR says knock about 5% off your 40-minute max effort HR - so that would put my LTHR at something more like 170-1. (So my max should be set somewhere around 200 on this system - even if that is not my actual max).
2. Other HR systems put your LTHR at more like 87-88% of max, and it varies between individuals, no? Could it just mean that my LTHR rather than being 85 per cent of my max, is actually 90% of my max? And is this a sign of fitness, i.e., do fitter people generally have a higher LTHR as percentage of max HR?
3. Does your LTHR change over time? Does it go up or down as you get fitter?
4. Could it just mean I was tired / had a bug and therefore had inflated HR? It was also hot in there: do the same efforts power-wise produce higher HRs in hotter conditions?
(5. Should I just save myself the bother and forget about bloody heart rates altogether?)

Phew. And thanks in advance.

[elliptic]

Errr, why are you trying to estimate your max HR in such a roundabout way? Just test it directly...

And yes, training can raise your lactate threshold HR by a noticeable amount, its not a fixed percentage.

[ZootHornRollo]

Errr, why are you trying to estimate your max HR in such a roundabout way? Just test it directly...

And yes, training can raise your lactate threshold HR by a noticeable amount, its not a fixed percentage.

Fair point - I should do a ramp test or the like.

[elliptic]

Yeah, I go out once a year on the road bike and just go flat out to failure uphill then fall over dribbling on the verge

One thing I've noticed is max HR comes down over the years but threshold HR (when I'm fit) less so.

If you were under recovered or ill then more likely to see lower HRs not higher ones in my experience.

[CL]

Why are you bothering with all that baggage Zoot? Can't you tell how hard you are working? No 5.

[ZootHornRollo]

Why are you bothering with all that baggage Zoot? Can't you tell how hard you are working? No 5.

yes well, I don't when I'm out on the bike - just in these spin classes: they give you HR monitors
at each class and everyone's readout is displayed on a screen at the front.
You don't have to wear the HRM though I suppose. It does however give you something to concentrate on - I find indoor cycling a bit, er, mentally taxing otherwise.

[ZootHornRollo]

any other HR geeks out there? :wink:

[Twister]

any other HR geeks out there? :wink:

Although I'm finding myself quite sceptical about it I've been following the Maffetone approach last winter during the aerobic base building phase of my training.
So I use the HRM to make sure that I'm not going over the point where Maffetone says you start becoming anaerobic which is 180 minus your age. in my case 144 Bpm.

My feelings are that this figure, 180, is deliberately set low, but it does reign you in and my speed at a low heart rate has increased by over a minute per mile. I don't feel the need however to use the HRM to run tempo or interval sessions as I just push as much as I can. There is also a lot of chat on the net about LT zones being a bit out dated as far as the science goes, I'll link to this later when I've got the time.

[creaky]

[QUOTE=Twister;491112]Although I'm finding myself quite sceptical about it I've been following the Maffetone approach last winter during the aerobic base building phase of my training.
So I use the HRM to make sure that I'm not going over the point where Maffetone says you start becoming anaerobic which is 180 minus your age. in my case 144 Bpm.

This is very interesting, it certainly puts a different complexion on training pace, if I used this system i would need to keep below 120bpm to stay aerobic.

Not sure my training partners would let me run that slow It might explain why I can't get a decent sequence of training sessions going though. Might try this out next winter.

[Twister]

[QUOTE=creaky;491303]

Although I'm finding myself quite sceptical about it I've been following the Maffetone approach last winter during the aerobic base building phase of my training.
So I use the HRM to make sure that I'm not going over the point where Maffetone says you start becoming anaerobic which is 180 minus your age. in my case 144 Bpm.

This is very interesting, it certainly puts a different complexion on training pace, if I used this system i would need to keep below 120bpm to stay aerobic.

Not sure my training partners would let me run that slow It might explain why I can't get a decent sequence of training sessions going though. Might try this out next winter.

If you're going to try it, it's worth getting the book off Amazon "Endurance Training and Racing", there's a lot more to it than the simple explanation I gave.

You have also got to reduce your carb intake, because the point of this exercise is to run better off fat, Maffetone goes in to depth in his book about fat burning for fuel and cites the success of tri-athlete Mark Allen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Al...8triathlete%29) after following a low-carb high protein, high fat diet, and the Maffetone Heart rate protocol. Tim Noakes who wrote Lore of Running is now also on board with this strategy, and is a supporter of Maffetone.

We're just lacking some decent studies on this (there are none, but plenty of testimonials). Noakes is on to this apparently and is commencing studies at the moment.

Mark Allen's MAF pace when he won his last ironman in '97 was 5:10 min/mile (remember this is aerobic his BPM is 143).

I got mine down from 11:30 min/mile to 9:30 in 10 weeks, I'll be going back to it in the winter for sure.