Age limits

[TheGrump]

I am only learning the ropes, rules, and conventions, gradually off the many eminent posts from all of you that have gone before on this thread, including use of liberal pinches of salt in reading and translating some of them.

You might find the documents on this page more informative than some of the posts on this thread.

[Witton Park]

I think we are familiar with them Grumpy.

Perhaps as you are so expert you can guide OB1 to the part of said literature which deals with the age groups and how they are defined because I can't find it?

Note the opening 9 words of Rule 10, the rule that must be obeyed.
Race organisers must stipulate age limits for their events
and then have a look at the calendar and the entry information available to see how few actually follow this advise with any meaningful accuracy.
If an RO only stipulates the age ie U14 or Age 12, what does that mean?

If the limited info such as Age 12 is used, then would it be right to assume that it is on the day

If the limited info such as "Juniors U10/U12/U14.... what then?

Guide us to the part where this is explained.

It is usually one of the above methods used in the race information and both are unsatisfactory.

[OB1]

[Crushed dreams and custard creams]

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RULE TEN
Race organisers must stipulate age limits for their events but the following maximum distance limits for
juniors must be observed.

Simples, oh so simples, yes, even to plebs like WEKTRAC, yet so incomprehensibly defined, and therefore not surprisingly so inconsistently followed with any meaningful accuracy.

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STOP PRESS!

Padme and Schmi are bunny-hopping mad that they won’t be running with Luke this Easter, and have kindly donated their copies of the shiny new Calendar to their nearest Senior fell running club (whose unconventional members don’t believe in standing orders). They have brand new bikes for Christmas and are off to try triathlon.

Leia has hidden her partially marked-up copy of the Calendar at the back of the Kenobi trophy cabinet and is out-on-the-street with her football.

Uncle B has gone fishing again with grumpy Humpty-Numpty.

TFK has gone back to work with a Hogmanay fare, dropping Auntie Lisa back at Ringway Airport.

Luke, soon a Senior, is left dreaming of Rivington and his last English Junior Championships.

Will WEKTRAC get back together in time for the Witton Park Junior Trail Relays?

For up-to-date information, watch this space

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Oh, and OB1’s gone off to destroy some Parkruns.
Happy New Year! Here’s looking forward to a great 2013 season.
Things may be quiet around here without a ghost-writer.

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All characters and events in the WEKTRAC Christmas pantomime show – even those based on real people – are entirely fictional. All conventional and unconventional fell running opinions are impersonated – poorly.

[Eleanor]

A different but related question.

Rule 10 also states 6 years as the lower age limit for races. Why are some FRA race organisers allowing children under 6 to enter junior races?

This must be happening, because I was berated by a parent at the Wansfell Junior Races the other day for not allowing her 4-year old daughter to enter, when apparently her daughter has run many fell races this year already. I don't want to fall out with parents, but I'm not prepared to break the age limit rule and I'm shocked that other race organisers are doing so. When I started organising races I was told very clearly this rule is very important and that breaking it would break the race insurance.

[Graham Breeze]

A different but related question.

Rule 10 also states 6 years as the lower age limit for races. Why are some FRA race organisers allowing children under 6 to enter junior races?

This must be happening, because I was berated by a parent at the Wansfell Junior Races the other day for not allowing her 4-year old daughter to enter, when apparently her daughter has run many fell races this year already. I don't want to fall out with parents, but I'm not prepared to break the age limit rule and I'm shocked that other race organisers are doing so. When I started organising races I was told very clearly this rule is very important and that breaking it would break the race insurance.

Eleanor

You are correct.

If you as the RO knowingly allow a 4 year old to run in a FRA Registered race you will put your future as a RO in jeopardy.

Being a nice person you will not believe what parents, coaches, passers-by, the runners themselves,...will say or do to enable juniors to breach the rules (and not all RO are whiter than white). Unfortunately from my previous role, I do.

Regards,

Graham

[Witton Park]

A different but related question.

Rule 10 also states 6 years as the lower age limit for races. Why are some FRA race organisers allowing children under 6 to enter junior races?

This must be happening, because I was berated by a parent at the Wansfell Junior Races the other day for not allowing her 4-year old daughter to enter, when apparently her daughter has run many fell races this year already. I don't want to fall out with parents, but I'm not prepared to break the age limit rule and I'm shocked that other race organisers are doing so. When I started organising races I was told very clearly this rule is very important and that breaking it would break the race insurance.

It happens in all disciplines Eleanor and I would say that the ROs are not usually culpable as it is often false info on entry slips by parents or connections.

We had a track meeting last year at Witton and a coach from a club was asked if a particular girl was old enough to run in a the U13 Girls 200 and he said yes. I found out a few days later that she was only 9 and so clearly not old enough.
That same coach ran a U15 Girl in a U17 Womens team recently as they were 1 short. Again, not allowed and he knows it.

It's ironic really how our Governing bodies can lack consistency.

UKA Rules for Road have maximum distances so if a club puts on a permitted 5K road race the athletes have to be 14.

If that same club organises a 5K Park Run, still permitted through UKA/EA, U13s can run as there is no age limit.

[OB1]

[Shereddies. Did you know that ‘there are 4 layers of satisfaction in every shreddie’? That is one layer for each point on the compass, so whichever direction that you are heading today you should always get a little bit of satisfaction. Festive Disorientation to one and all!]

Under pressure from TFK I have reluctantly :angry: agreed to post the following message on behalf of WEKTRAC, whilst TFK and Leia wait for an account to be approved by Brett.


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Hello, my name is Leia. I am 9 years old and I will be 10 on 1^st Feb 2013. I am writing to you all because I would like you to fix it for me to run the Bunny Run Relay this coming Easter 2013, along with my 11 year old twin sisters Padme and Schmi (12 in July).

My cousin Luke tells me that the event is run over 1.5 miles with a climb of 200 feet. I have checked and this information is also shown on the organiser’s website page.

However my copy of the 2013 FRA Calendar shows it as 3.2 km / 60m, which I think we would need to be 12 to run. But 12 when? Now, New Year, on day?

With the help of Mumpsy-moo and my maths book I have worked out that:

1. 1.5 miles can be rounded up to 2 miles. Then 2 miles x 1.6 = 3.2 km. This is >3 km
2. 1.5 miles x 1.6 = 2.4 km. This is < 3 km

I don’t know which of these two calculations if any is being followed by the FRA for this event?
Mumpsy asked Dad but he said he has taken leave from considering such things.
My Uncle B has gone fishing, and anyway he often gets things mixed up in his mind.

I have also worked out that if the age criteria for qualification is based on any time before 31^st Jan 2013 then I probably will be able to run. Otherwise I will not but my sisters might. My sisters ran this race with Luke this year (2012) when my sisters were 10 and Mumpsy is worried looking at the 2012 Calendar that they may have broken the rules then. Their cousin Luke also ran it when he was 10 a few years ago, although like I am now he was 9 on 1^st Jan in the year that he ran it. He says his dad checked the rules and they were OK when he ran.

Please please can you fix it for me?

Dad is taking me to watch some of his friends run around in circles in Tintwhistle, but I will ask him to check your answers on our return.


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Yes, yes, OK I will check for her on our return:angry:

[MargC]

[QUOTE]

I understand that the organiser of the Bunny Run Relay has contacted Andy Butler, the new FRA Fixtures Secretary, stating that the distance included in the 2013 printed FRA Calendar is incorrect and asking for it to be changed from 3.2km to 2.4km which he has done in the Calendar on the FRA website. I am unsure how the error occured but it was carried through when I updated the 2012 Calendar race details for the 2013 Calendar. At 2.4km anyone over 10 on race day will be eligible to enter this Senior event unless the race organiser has stated otherwise.

Distances/climbs included in the Calendar are those provided by race organisers. Therefore if you have any queries about these you should contact the relevant organiser. You should also contact race organisers of Junior races if you need to know in advance whether the ages used will be as on the day of the race or on Jan 1st.

Margaret Chippendale (Compiler of 2013 FRA Calendar and ex FRA Fixtures Secretary)

[OB1]

[Heaven - no more Bambinochinos. Quaffing Belvoir fruit farm’s100% good presse with full size menu orders all round]

A message live from Leia via TFK’s new i-Pad whilst celebrating at the WEKTRAC New Year Eve party held this year at Pizza Express Cheadle.

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Oh thank you so much Margaret and Andy for fixing the 2013 Calendar for me, to allow 10 year olds and over (under 12 as some people seem to call it) to run at the Bunny Run Relays at Easter. Padme and Shmi were so happy when I told them, but I was still waiting with baited breath for Mumpsy or Dad to hear from the RO regarding the age criteria for the ‘Over 10’ shown. You see that phrase doesn’t mean much to me; Over 10 when? Before or after my next birthday on 1^st Feb 2013? Padme and Schmi finally understood but only after the 10^th time of me explaining it to them. They were then rooting for me as deep down they would rather run with me than with cousin Luke – he doesn’t seem to have much time for them anymore.

Dad came in after lunch to say we could have our traditional NYE party at Pizza Express this year, to celebrate WEKTRAC being able to run as an all-girls relay team in 2013 in at least some traditional as well as some new races. I didn’t follow what he meant at first. He said he was just coming back from a run to the cake shop when one of his new friends called Sir Dickie texted him from his mud bath at a place dad called Auld Lang Syne. I am not sure where he meant Sir Dickie was. Anyway, doesn’t matter. It seems that the BR-Relay age criteria at Easter 2013 will be ‘Age on the Day’. What wonderful , wonderful news. It means that ‘Over 10’ will really mean anyone who is well, ‘over 10 and old enough to run the distance safely per Rule 10’. Including yes, you guessed it me! Although I am 9 tomorrow, 1^st Jan, I will be 10 in only one month’s time, way before Easter and way before the rest of the 2013 fell season. Just think, if the nice gentleman and lady at the Woodentops had made it Age at 1^st Jan or even 31^st Jan then technically I would not have been old enough to race, even though judged old enough to safely do so by all of you.

I am really looking forward to running a few races with my sisters and for Team WEKTRAK this year (oops next season). They think they are cute learning to swim-bike-run, but I am sticking with what I enjoy, running and football, and I know I will get as good as them at the races – just you wait and see. I have been nearly as quick as them in the schools Cross Country before, and they had proper fell shoes on. My feet are still growing and I had to wear my football boots.

WEKTRAC has learnt a lot this Christmas about the FRA rules and how you all interprete them, and all because of you. I would like to thank all you lovely people for giving me this chance to run up to 3km as soon as I turn 10 next month and not to have to sit out a whole season altogether. Dad says that this is all because some of you are conventional and others unconventional and that if you were all the same it might not be possible. That hurt my head a bit, but I will think about it properly tomorrow. I've had too much rasberry lemonade right now.

Dad says for me to apologise for pestering him to speak to you all through the Christmas holiday. I am sorry, but it was worth it in the end. Anyway, Mumpsy just nudged me to say ‘stop rambling like you dad’ so I better go. She says that as a red rose she’s just spotted the Tesco vouchers in Dad’s jacket pocket. Dad is a white rose you see.

Oh you are so, so lovely. Happy New Year from WEKTRAC!
I just tried to attach a photo from our party but Mumpsy is still working out this i-Pad thing.

Leia :love:

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Cheers folks – you’re a great fell fraternity. I will toast you all tonight from the Longdendale Lodge. See you on the hills. I can get back to work on Wednesday with a clear conscience. These young wippersnappers can really tug hard. Bottoms up!

[Witton Park]

Might as well use an old thread.

How many of you out there are aware that UKA are consulting on changes to the Rule Book for 2016?
Click here for info.

Note in the FAQs
Would this apply to all disciplines?
Yes – if adopted then the new age groups would apply across all disciplines and have the effect of
standardising across the sport and allowing structured preparation for international competition at
Under 20 and Under 18.

If this does go ahead it might not be such an onerous issue for Fell Running as there is already a familiarity with age group changes on 31st Dec/1st Jan.
However, the FRA doesn't define age groups in it's rules, only max distances (a mistake in my opinion) and it would now have age group definition forced on it.

This may have an affect on the recent change that allows junior races to be age on day and it may also have an effect on race sthat operate differing age cats such as BOFRA.

Fell Clubs certainly need to consider this and if necessary make their views known through the channels outlined on the link.

The FRA is also an affiliate and has a voice in the process. It would be interesting to know if the committee has discussed this and has a view.

NB.
Would the change affect Schools’ competitions?
No – Schools’ competition is managed separately and no changes will be made to their structure.

The schools are no buying in to this. No surprise really as they participate in sport based on school year.

Other than fell there are consequences for Cross Country in particular as the age groups would change mid season.