DT, they are similar to how Ian describes his. i can run but there is a tenderness if I kneel down or bang the knee cap accidently. Are you still doing squats to avoid the injury returning and do you still have that residual tenderness?Originally Posted by Corniceman
Sorry, I've only just seen this. I don't really do any squats now and haven't really had any knee pain since. From memory, it took several months for my problem to clear up. I was doing around 200 to 350 squats per week typically in 3 or 4 sessions
Poacher turned game-keeper
So mines back again, this is the only injury I have struggled with over the past few years.
Since Oct '10, I have struggled with it 6 times, each time having to stop running for a least a month. Since the first time I had it I have only managed 4 months training without this problem before it returns, maybe this is what I just have to get used to?
So frustrating, as each time I get over the injury and start running again I keep reducing my running mileage to prevent this.. to the point where I am only running 35mi - 40mi a week within 4-5 runs.
All my shoes are pretty new-ish and haven't done many miles so can't be that, haven't done anything different in training, not big mileage increase etc.
Knee is too sore to even start doing squats.. I thought my quads would be pretty strong as I'm on the turbo trainer 3x a week doing some hard interval stuff.
Was meant to be doing my first fell race of the year this weekend!
Will. Real sympathies to you. from the above you say knee is too sore to even start doing squats? Does it get that sore suddenly or do you gradually reach the level of pain you are describing? The reason I ask is whether you could do the remedial physio, eg squats, lunges before the acute level of pain really hits? Otherwise does your pain subside after a little rest and ibuprofen etc? if so can you commence a gentle and building regime of physio/remedial action then? With mine, I hated the pain( but it doesnt sound as bad as yours) so initially I rested. my physio advised I should do some light jogging and X training to avoid atrophy of the quads and that gave me some confidence. I aslo couldnt understand why I should have weak quads when like you I am constantly working them and was racing great when the injury forst struck. The answer I was given was that PT occurs like many injuries due to minor micro tears and that as these become more frequent the injury begins to show itsself, therefor your turbo sessions might have been causing those micro injuries that then you began to feel as the acute pain when you felt the onset of PT. Your injury sounds quite chronic now and you might need help in breaking down scar tissue on the underside of the knee cap which as you know will imopede recovery or as with all scar tissue is weaker and less flexible than good tendon. Have you seen a physio yet? I know alot of you Leek based guys are consulting Mike P from Stoke, you might know him and at least he's a fell runner which is always good. Jon W from Moorlands should be able to give you Mikes contact details? Good luck with it and as DT has said, those squats do work and kind of keep it manageable if not a total cure.
Simon
I've been out for about a month with mine. I've been using a hot water bottle twice daily and NSAI gel once daily, along with 2 sessions of infra-patella friction massage per day. My physio has tought me how to locate scar tissue by feeling around the patella and work it away; a stubborn area can clear in about a week with intensive work but you have to allow the repair processes to take place and not bash it relentlessly.
I'm on 2x40 squats each morning now, but by the end of the week this will rise to 4x30. I've also identified the rowing machine as a good route back in. It has been suggested to be that i can use shallow squats with a fair amount of weight on to work the deep quad muscles.
One other thing that i have found is that static quads exercises makes a leg less prone to PT. My bad knee, which has had nearly a year of static quads, has cleared up far faster than my left.
Will, be prepared to cut your milage down significantly if that is what is required. It took me longer than i can recall to come to the harsh truth that you cannot beat an injury by running; whether that running is training, racing, 'running through' the injury call it what you like it doesn't work. Restructuring your running pattern might be all you need to get more rest days. I went through a lot of misery and soreness by being stubborn.
Luke Appleyard (Wharfedale)- quick on the dissent
I had this quite badly about a year ago. I did no running for about a month and hit the bike instead. High cadence, low resistance (mind numbed) on the turbotrainer was what the physio ordered. I started running about once every three days (cycling others) and built up over the next month to the point where I was running most days two months out.
This isn't going to be a popular observation on a fell running forum, but one thing that is probably a factor is gradient. You may find that you can run on the flat before you can tackle the ups and (especially) the downs. This was OK for me at the time, because I was marathon training, so I stuck (mainly) to the flat for a while after.
My personal conviction is that a lot of it is down to how you run. The PT was my first significant running injury. I had my "Born to Run" moment and worked at changing how I ran over the summer. I still had minor flare ups occasionally on the downhills but any pain was momentary and didn't stick around - I tried to use it as an early warning system to help me develop my technique. It seemed to work. The flare ups went and over the second half of last year I ran more.
Everything was going well until I developed some foot pain a week or so ago. I diagnosed that to be down to ill fitting shoes, but I think running with the pain affected my form and by the time I had found shoes that got rid of the foot pain I had patella tendonitis again.
I don't know whether the PT would have reoccured had I not had the foot issue. I like to think not, but of course I'll never know. Thankfully it doesn't seem to be so bad this time. Pain walking up and down stairs the day after has now cleared and I'm optimistic that I may be able to run again in a week or two. One thing that's helped is not trying to run through it when it first occurred. That definitely made things a lot worse first time round. This time around I'm also going to try and be more diligent with the strengthening exercises and to keep them up after the injury's gone, as PT evidently is something I'm prone to.
Much sympathy and best of luck to all you fellow sufferers!
well heres a very pleasant surprise. after my heart problem I lost the will to do any thing including my strengthing exercises. I've turned up in the Alps about to go skiing and my knees sounded awful, cracking and quite painfull. Wasn't very optimistic but.......
3 days of skiing, actually 3 days of hard skiing and they feel....well great. no cracking and no pain. still sore if I kneel on them but they feel really good. maybe all that flexing has done the work of the squatts
So after two weeks of complete rest with the usual ice / heat / anti-flam / quad streches things seemed to have settled down slightly, pain has eased so I am able to cycle at a higher cadence. Harder efforts there is pain, same goes for walking up stairs but hopefully it's on the right track.
If I can make it out on the bike a bit more then I'll be happy.
Maybe your correct mr brightside, think I'll try and get out on the bike a bit more to keep the volume up and cut the running but making sure when I do run its quality.
This time I stopped the first time I felt it and not doing what I usually do, going on a number of runs 'testing it'.
Hoping I can get some decent rides in soon then get back running for March as Skyline is still a big target!
Reading all of your accounts is sounding familiar. It's surprising how many of us suffer from knee problems at one time or another. Right knee pain flared up with me in early 2010 after a year or so of slowly increasing niggle when I hammered the downhills, but it only flared up properly when I had to stop running due to a broken foot. Before I knew what I know now - that it was tendon inflammation underneath the kneecap - I thought it was the end. Rest made it worse and sitting was the worst of all. I couldn't keep my leg bent at right angles. My comeback began with the LDWA 100-mile walk/run in Scotland. The long-term gentle exercise and stretching over 34+ hours brought relief I never dared imagine. I could sit in comfort again. Tendons are funny things and they don't like total rest.
I'm still no better, it's just moving from knee to knee. This week my right is terrible and i've had to give up my remedial exercises completely, i've given up on race targets as there is no point being ambitious, i can't swim at the moment without paying for it in pain.
Luke Appleyard (Wharfedale)- quick on the dissent
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote