Winter BG record

[andyblackett]

I might upset a few people here, but I don't intend to, I am after a bit of clarification.

According to this website, http://www.runlakes.com/winter-on-the-fells.html, Steve Ashworth holds the winter BG record. But according to this one, and my understanding, http://www.bobgrahamclub.co.uk/index.php?page=winter Steve's round was mostly solo so it wasn't ratified.

Now, again, if I understand this right, you can self-ratify a round if you are already a member of the club, as Jim Mann was on his 20:39 round.

If I understand these rules correctly isn't it time for a bit of modernisation? Say, a round can be ratified by GPS track, or a photo at each summit would do the trick?

Andy

[ydt]

Andy, Let's not have too many rules and constraints and let's accept that anyone attempting such a challenge solo wouldn't lie. Yiannis

[MorganW]

The rules of the Club are clear; if you want to use your round to qualify for membership of the Club, then it must comply with the few, simple rules that the Club requires.

So, no solo rounds, summer or winter, can be used to gain membership.

Once people have obtained membership, then they they are operating outside of the club's framework and can do subsequent rounds as they wish. Many of the winter completers did a summer round first.

For a few, the winter round was their first and so done in "classic" style and those rounds counted for membership.

The rule about witnessing is there for safety first and foremost. I can't see the day when solo rounds will count for membership. That was the basis on which the Club was started.

If something were to go badly wrong for a solo contender (and the increasing numbers make this a greater possibility than ever), I (and I know my fellow committee members feel likewise) don't fancy facing down a bereaved family, their legal team or HM Coroner to explain why the Club "encourages" solo attempts on a 66 mile, 28,000', 42 peak mountaineering challenge where the weather can turn violently nasty at any time of year.

Morgan Williams
Secretary
The Bob Graham 24 Hour Club

[andyblackett]

I can fully agree with the the thoughts of Yiannis and Morgan above, but it leaves me unclear about what the winter record is, as recognised by the club.

Does the club recognise records by a member on a subsequent unsupported round?

Does the club recognise records by non members?

I could imagine the possibility of a great runner posting someone on each of the 42 tops in summer, having a crack at Billy's record and running solo between them, therefore being ratified, but not "supported on the fells" as is worded on the ratification form.

Would the club recognise such a record?

It would be nice to have a body which presided over records as well as membership, but perhaps I have misunderstood the role of the club in thinking that is their role? If it is the club's role then, Morgan, What is the winter record?

[ydt]

Until Morgan replies, here is my opinion: the BG club only awards memberships to witnessed completions. Any other completions - summer, winter, records, are simply acknowledged by the club as by any other organisation or individuals.

[Bob]

I put Steve's winter round on the site so point any confusion at me.

The club attempts to record all rounds based on the standard BGR route and the 24hr record. Those who complete the round (or better) within 24hrs and whose round is witnessed are eligible for club membership. This is also true for winter rounds. However that does not mean that such an outstanding run as Steve's round should be ignored by the club, it would be churlish to do so. I don't think the word "record" is appropriate when applied to winter rounds as the conditions can be so variable as to make such comparison pointless. Better to describe it as "the fastest known time" as I have done on the site.

An analogy might be the FRCC who publish rock climbing guides to the Lakes but include details of climbs first done by non-members.

As Morgan has indicated, it would not be appropriate for the club to either encourage or be seen to encourage unknown individuals to attempt the BGR winter or summer solo. That leaves club members: if they decide to attempt a second round then there is no need to adhere to the entry requirements, they are no longer seeking entry to the club.

[andyblackett]

All makes a lot of sense.

Thanks.

[andy k]

Another way of looking at this Andy, is that the club is not about times,
it is about membership and its original intention and primary role is to encourage like minded runners to help one another to complete the challenge of the BG, thereby gaining membership.
When you get your certificate it does not carry your time
On the club membership list no times are recorded
witnessed ratification by support runners is a club membership requirement only,
also the experience shared with fellow runners is part of the magic of the round and I think the group experience is part of being a member

But of course people are interested in the good times - some of which will have been witnessed and are therefore "official" "ratified"
It doesn't mean that other times are not acknowledged.