Lydiard or Speed Endurance?

[Mark G]

From a performance point of view either argument could be convincing but only long runs get you out on the hill for long periods of time so I know which I prefer!

[Stolly]

From a performance point of view either argument could be convincing but only long runs get you out on the hill for long periods of time so I know which I prefer!

The right answer!

[CL]

mo farrar runs 120 miles per week,his coach says the sessions that have given him the edge are the 3 sessions a week of weight training.
personally i think everyone is different and there training needs to reflect this.
as i am quite large build i found i had to run more to get the results.
when i was in my prime i was on 80 to 90 miles a week,with 2 speed,1 sustained and 1 long.
when i tried 100 miles a week i found another gear and improved more,but i couldnt cut the grass or decorate.i was tired all the time,but got pbs,
one of my training partners ran 40 miles per week and was always faster than me,thanks to his genes.
i was once talking to steve binns(commonwealth silver) who said he couldnt do more than 60 mpw,and when he tried to step it up he had to have 2 baths to try and recover.
i dont know if you remember jimmy ashworth(think 2.10 marathon)jimmy used to be in correspondence with arthur lydiard,
jim would run 200 miles a week,the mileage suited him.
colin moore(sub 44 mins 10 miler)would do 50 miles a week all of quality and would beat jimmy by a good 3 minutes over 10 miles.
as said everyone is different.

What made you conclude the 40MPW runner was beating you because of his genes? I was wondering whether you'd tell us what times (pbs) you were running on 80-90MPW.

[CL]

I agree Chris, this is basically what i would expect to be a sensible approach for folks like us. If some professional runners swear by benefits from high mpw then they can crack on, but recreational runners on the open scene should not be buying into statements such as, "you've got to get the miles in", as if it's a prerequisite for peak performance.

It is true though Mr B, you have to get the miles in although that statement leaves the answer open ended. Is getting the miles in 2 miles, 20 miles or 200miles per week, Jimmy Ashworth style?

[Dynamo Dan]

It is true though Mr B, you have to get the miles in although that statement leaves the answer open ended. Is getting the miles in 2 miles, 20 miles or 200miles per week, Jimmy Ashworth style?

Out of interest what does your training week look like this time of year and in the midst of summer races? It must work because you're always up there mate!

[CL]

Out of interest what does your training week look like this time of year and in the midst of summer races? It must work because you're always up there mate!

It's the same but recently I dropped some weight which has made me faster without making me fitter. I have in mind what sessions I need to do but I have ignored the time element in which to do them. I've done this so I take rest days when I need them and don't worry about meeting weekly quotas sessions etc.

There are 4 key sessions: steady runs 45-60minutes occasionally going to 90minutes; 20-30minute hard run or intervals; sprints; weight training. If I've raced and am racing the next weekend I often won't do any hard runs just a short weights session early on. If I'm jaded I take days off knowing I'll come back full of beans. Some of the above sessions I switch to the bike depending on what mood I'm in.

Oh I almost forgot the main ingredient, the one that makes the tough sessions effective........................guts! No amount of stollyisms ("I don't take this too seriously") will make a shred of difference if you aren't willing to push to the limit.

[Dynamo Dan]

It's the same but recently I dropped some weight which has made me faster without making me fitter. I have in mind what sessions I need to do but I have ignored the time element in which to do them. I've done this so I take rest days when I need them and don't worry about meeting weekly quotas sessions etc.

There are 4 key sessions: steady runs 45-60minutes occasionally going to 90minutes; 20-30minute hard run or intervals; sprints; weight training. If I've raced and am racing the next weekend I often won't do any hard runs just a short weights session early on. If I'm jaded I take days off knowing I'll come back full of beans. Some of the above sessions I switch to the bike depending on what mood I'm in.

Oh I almost forgot the main ingredient, the one that makes the tough sessions effective........................guts! No amount of stollyisms ("I don't take this too seriously") will make a shred of difference if you aren't willing to push to the limit.

Cheers Chris

[MickTor]

Very interesting thread! I don't know all that much about other folks training and whatnot, but I do know that when a friend of mine advised I mix in some interval training and cross fit my running and over all fitness has improved. Doing things like Kelly's and pyramid workouts has helped me a lot. Whatever works for the individual. I think there's an element of trying what feels right or of interest and finding what works well.As mentioned different training will benefit different folks. This aint a one size fits all game is it!

[Stolly]

No amount of stollyisms ("I don't take this too seriously") will make a shred of difference if you aren't willing to push to the limit.

Haha leave me out of it. I run for runnings sake rather than racings sake and only perhaps do a dozen races a year. Never the less when I race I go full on and, within my age group, do pretty well. That said I'll hold my hand up and admit that getting into the top 25% finishers of a fell race is good going for me. At least I enjoy all my running - I suspect that some of the hard nosed front of field racers might well hate every minute of it

[Dynamo Dan]

Very interesting thread! I don't know all that much about other folks training and whatnot, but I do know that when a friend of mine advised I mix in some interval training and cross fit my running and over all fitness has improved. Doing things like Kelly's and pyramid workouts has helped me a lot. Whatever works for the individual. I think there's an element of trying what feels right or of interest and finding what works well.As mentioned different training will benefit different folks. This aint a one size fits all game is it!

I'm not running much at the moment, but I've started rock climbing 2 or 3 times a week and I think the overall strength it's giving me is really helping my running.