hill reps or backtoback races?

[Wirksworth Tortoise]

Hi - After a bit of advice here. Because I live in Derbyshire and love doing races (of which there are approx. 70 in the general area over the course of a year) I largely rely on doing back-to-back races to keep fit and hopefully develop. Ideally I'd like to do regular hill reps but it's very hard to find time in between doing races, recovering from doing races and unavoidable time consuming crap like having to work for a living. I have been advised that the number of hills I run (run?) should cover it, but what's the consensus? - hill reps or back-to-back races? I'd welcome any feedback. Thanks WT (PS - wasn't that wind on Kinder Downfall a bastard - it's all I could do to keep standing up at times, let alone keep moving forward)

[Stagger]

Its what suits you and how you perform best.
Try both for a month.
Diet, rest and sleep are also as important as training.

[LissaJous]

You could always try doing the back-to-back races and adding some some flat speed work mid-week. Just make sure you're breathing very very hard when you do the reps. Probably short-ish reps with short recovery.

Also what Stagger says; that's always how to get better ~ trial, recording data, evaluation/decision, application.

[Twister]

Just make sure you're breathing very very hard when you do the reps. Probably short-ish reps with short recovery.

Yes I agree with that, no point in doing reps if you're not completely at your limit. If you do hill reps and can find a long enough hill, don't do the namby pamby downhill "jog recoveries" that they preach in runners world. No, carry on up the hill instead, with a fast walk. make walking fast up hill seem easy and you've cracked it I think. I did 10 reps like this last time, 2 mins on 1 min off, really felt great. Then I followed that with a really fast descent back to the start. I call that sort of session "Hill-tervals" I try and get at least 3 of these in a month now.

[TheManWhoWouldRunFells]

Re recovery time: it depends what your aim for the session is. If you're wanting to work on your strength / speed you need longer recoveries. After all, there are many different sorts of hill interval sessions. The point of the 'namby pamby downhill jog recoveries' is to allow you to do a number of maximum effort intervals (to develop leg strength). You're nowhere near maximum effort doing 2 minutes on 1 minute off. Of course, you'll get a good aerobic workout, with some strength element to it, but that's not the only sort of workout that can provide a benefit.

The sort of hill session you're planning to do is also relevant to whether it can be suitably replaced by a race. If you're planning on running a hill session with long intervals on and short periods of rest, then probably a race would provide a relatively similar training stimulus.

[foggon]

I have a related dilemma I am racing once a week atm and sometimes twice a week typically Thursday and Saturday. This week there is short race on Thursday straight up a mountain around 2000ft and finishes at the top no race down for this one. I normally do a hill rep session on Monday but decided give it a miss and did a flat interval session on Monday instead, thinking race on Thursday will be a good hill workout. However, now I am thinking is racing on Thursday too close to Saturdays race which is a much longer race with over 5000 ft of climbing and around 13 miles and should I maybe give the Thursday race a miss or just man up and do both?

[Hank]

I have a related dilemma I am racing once a week atm and sometimes twice a week typically Thursday and Saturday. This week there is short race on Thursday straight up a mountain around 2000ft and finishes at the top no race down for this one. I normally do a hill rep session on Monday but decided give it a miss and did a flat interval session on Monday instead, thinking race on Thursday will be a good hill workout. However, now I am thinking is racing on Thursday too close to Saturdays race which is a much longer race with over 5000 ft of climbing and around 13 miles and should I maybe give the Thursday race a miss or just man up and do both?

I guess it depends on what you want to achieve. The very best possible result on Saturday? Either give Thursday a miss or take it very steady. Enjoy two races and not fussed about results? Do both.

[foggon]

I guess it depends on what you want to achieve. The very best possible result on Saturday? Either give Thursday a miss or take it very steady. Enjoy two races and not fussed about results? Do both.

Thanks Hank , good advice, yeah well I ain't going to be troubling the leaders in any of the races, so will see how a feel tommorow, if feeling good will do the race tomorrow and try and take it steady hopefully leaving a bit in the tank for saturday

[Twister]

Re recovery time: it depends what your aim for the session is. If you're wanting to work on your strength / speed you need longer recoveries. After all, there are many different sorts of hill interval sessions. The point of the 'namby pamby downhill jog recoveries' is to allow you to do a number of maximum effort intervals (to develop leg strength).

I'd argue that my session also gets you running at your maximum as you progress through the intervals it gets harder and harder to reach the 2 minute mark. I'd would also argue in favour of it as a strength workout, an anaerobic session and it also trains your "hands on knees" fast walk, which we all revert to at some point. The idea is also to make an easy up hill effort (the 1 minute rest) seem really easy, there's a certain mental advantage to this as well as a physiological. I usually always follow this session with a fast descent - again strengthening muscles (but without the oxygen depletion).

I haven't tried this with a heart rate monitor, but as I ran nearly all of last year with one, I know by feel that I'm topping out with this session. Obviously if this session isn't hard enough you can cut the "recoveries" or increase the amount of time at effort, you could also add extra reps. I only see the value in the hill repeats with easy down hill jog recoveries as an option for those unlucky enough not to live near any decent hills.

I think that the advantage of the session I outlined is that it prepares you both physically and mentally to race and is harder than a race - if I would push myself that hard in a race I'd be bonking within 30 mins. Depends on your individual race strategy and distance though.