Langdale Gala FRA champs race

[Witton Park]

I'm sorry I couldn't make it myself, but I've had a feedback from my athletes and parents and they thought the venue was excellent. Although the type of terrain was outside of some of their comfort zones, I think the essence of the junior FRA series is variety and they need to test themselves on a variety of terrain and I think we've seen some good options this year.
The only comment I would make for the future is not just relevant to Langdale, but some other races. Some of the venues get quite congested from the start and so we have to be mindful when we are timetabling the races.
Are the fields getting so big now that we have to consider splitting the male and female athletes in the U14 & u12 age groups and if running the U16 & U18 together because we lack U18s, perhaps we also split them Male/Female.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a longer timetable - eg had we set off the U14 Boys and then 3 minutes later the U14 Girls, it would have meant the girls could have raced just the girls and not have to battle their way through a host of boys as well.
Of course we can only really do that on courses that have a loop - not on straight out and back courses.

[Damaged goods]

Simon,

100% PM'd you earlier, and not seen PM from you yet ref address for flo's Walsh's .

Prob with system or "operator error" from both of us?

[Eleanor]

Results posted at http://www.amblesideacjuniors.co.uk/local-races.php
Any problems or mistakes, send me a message and I'll try to fix it.

[Eleanor]

Results posted at http://www.amblesideacjuniors.co.uk/local-races.php
Any problems or mistakes, send me a message and I'll try to fix it.

We had a mistake in the senior results - a slight error in timings in the final 10 or so, and 3 people listed as DNF who did finish. We've found the missing timesheet and will update the results asap and repost

[withaY]

The only comment I would make for the future is not just relevant to Langdale, but some other races. Some of the venues get quite congested from the start and so we have to be mindful when we are timetabling the races.
Are the fields getting so big now that we have to consider splitting the male and female athletes in the U14 & u12 age groups and if running the U16 & U18 together because we lack U18s, perhaps we also split them Male/Female.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a longer timetable - eg had we set off the U14 Boys and then 3 minutes later the U14 Girls, it would have meant the girls could have raced just the girls and not have to battle their way through a host of boys as well.

unfortunately the langdale race completely contradicts the above argument.

the u14 girls effectively ran a seperate race. as the results show of the 17 or so girls they finished en mass between 18th and 41st places with only a handful of boys seperating them all. even more marked is the u16 race where only 2 boys finished amongst the girls.
Reflecting on numbers at the start the numbers of runners in the u12/u14/u16 races were, as is often the case, dwarfed by the hordes of enthusiastic u8 and u10 runners in thier races.

my daughters have run all the fra rounds and the routes have been such that although starts have on one occasion been no wider than a road (rivington) the rest have been across open fields with at least 80m before the first gate. Langdale certainly had a good 200m across open field before the road.

from my perspective the races themselves have been varied, challenging and worthy of thier status, and I'd like to thank the organisers of each race for taking the time and the no doubt personal expense to provide us with a series of excellent races.

As a parent i hope that going forward race organisers could be supported with a set of standards. This would undoubtedly help them and provide the many hundreds of competitors a standard format pre and post race so that they can concentrate on the racing.
Perhaps guidance might be provided for pre race and route information ( i 'd use Cowpe as a bench mark) Facilities, car parking, loos, signing on etc ( Stretton/ Hawkswick/ langdale) and awards/ post race goody bags (Stretton)

kids need something to look forward to, something to work toward and reward for thier effort.

[Witton Park]

unfortunately the langdale race completely contradicts the above argument.

the u14 girls effectively ran a seperate race. as the results show of the 17 or so girls they finished en mass between 18th and 41st places with only a handful of boys seperating them all. even more marked is the u16 race where only 2 boys finished amongst the girls.
Reflecting on numbers at the start the numbers of runners in the u12/u14/u16 races were, as is often the case, dwarfed by the hordes of enthusiastic u8 and u10 runners in thier races.

my daughters have run all the fra rounds and the routes have been such that although starts have on one occasion been no wider than a road (rivington) the rest have been across open fields with at least 80m before the first gate. Langdale certainly had a good 200m across open field before the road.

from my perspective the races themselves have been varied, challenging and worthy of thier status, and I'd like to thank the organisers of each race for taking the time and the no doubt personal expense to provide us with a series of excellent races.

As a parent i hope that going forward race organisers could be supported with a set of standards. This would undoubtedly help them and provide the many hundreds of competitors a standard format pre and post race so that they can concentrate on the racing.
Perhaps guidance might be provided for pre race and route information ( i 'd use Cowpe as a bench mark) Facilities, car parking, loos, signing on etc ( Stretton/ Hawkswick/ langdale) and awards/ post race goody bags (Stretton)

kids need something to look forward to, something to work toward and reward for their effort.

Langdale is one of the few I've missed and I was disappointed as I like to be there to support my athletes.

But you cannot go off the times as you have to counter what I have said - in fact it could be argued it's evidence for my point.
If you take the U14 Girls, at Hawkswick the lead girl was 11th and the lead 5 finished in the top 20.
Perhaps the boys, with their tendency to get away faster got across that 200m opening section to the narrower parts first?
Perhaps that was an advantage which allowed them to hold race position?
Perhaps the Boys who finished in positions 25, 26, 27 were in positions 18,19, 20 at some point?
anyway, it's not meant to be a point to be taken in this way.

Boys do get in the way regularly mostly inadvertently, but sometimes intentionally and it doesn't just apply to fell races. It even happens with Seniors and many of the Champs races at Senior level split up the Male and female races.

The problem is that when you look at any of the races, the only girls that are affected (if any) are going to be them top few girls, racing for podium positions on the day and in the series, as those girls in the U14 race (for example) outside of the Top 5, are racing mainly girl against girl anyway.

[Lefty]

After a canvass of the juniors from our club the concensus is that the the girls prefer running in a mixed race rather than on their own and I myself having been to every race bar one did not observe a problem this year and I've been organising fell races for more than 40 years and racing for far longer. Perhaps we should ask our juniors far more often what they want and what they prefer rather than making decisions for them !

[Eleanor]

After a canvass of the juniors from our club the concensus is that the the girls prefer running in a mixed race rather than on their own and I myself having been to every race bar one did not observe a problem this year and I've been organising fell races for more than 40 years and racing for far longer. Perhaps we should ask our juniors far more often what they want and what they prefer rather than making decisions for them !

Good idea Lefty. Our runners are far less experienced than yours, with the relative new-ness of our team, but I'll ask them too.

[Witton Park]

After a canvass of the juniors from our club the concensus is that the the girls prefer running in a mixed race rather than on their own and I myself having been to every race bar one did not observe a problem this year and I've been organising fell races for more than 40 years and racing for far longer. Perhaps we should ask our juniors far more often what they want and what they prefer rather than making decisions for them !

Lefty - I did ask my juniors. How many Juniors did you have running in the U16s and U18s? I asked another U16 who ran last night (as I wasn't there) who advised that they also had to contend with the seniors.
Incidentally, my juniors also enjoy taking on the lads and seniors - they are just giving feedback through me that it was a bit congested on parts of the climb and perhaps the timing and age cats of the race can be looked at if they host again next year.
We did that at Pendle - and they often split the Male and Females at Senior Champs.

[Corniceman]

Simon,

100% PM'd you earlier, and not seen PM from you yet ref address for flo's Walsh's .

Prob with system or "operator error" from both of us?

George

My inbox was full now empty. Think you need to resend but did get your message about Walsh's. really thankful and will let you know when they arrive.

Simon