New safety rules

[Will_B]

If you have comments on these proposals, where are they addressed to? Any pointers / links available?

From the FRA homepage -

A sub-group of the Executive Committee has been formed to review aspects of safety in FRA fell races. A single document has been produced in DRAFT which brings together the various documents on this subject and will, in its final form, be included in the 2014 Calendar & Handbook. Changes relate to eg competition numbers, race monitoring (eg greater utilisation of FRA radios) and waterproof being the core kit standard kit (rather than windproof).
Draft document
Members are now invited to submit any observations to [email protected]

[Stagger]

It still is a very simple sport with a few simple rules. Simple.

Narr.
Waterproof yes, but to what hydrostatic head?
Breathability no.
No top less running, Loveshack does it all the time.

If it goes too far I see a lot of fellrunners becoming just that. But not racers any more.

And with all this going on I watched the Snowden race on TV last night and hardly anyone carried a bag with water in on a very hot day. (A lot of daft folk out there and the last 3 minutes proved it by the number being sponged down.)

[LissaJous]

Narr.
Waterproof yes, but to what hydrostatic head?
Breathability no.
No top less running, Loveshack does it all the time.

If it goes too far I see a lot of fellrunners becoming just that. But not racers any more.

Indeed. Or ROs looking elsewhere for permit/insurance (but how much would that add to entry fees?)

And with all this going on I watched the Snowdon race on TV last night and hardly anyone carried a bag with water in on a very hot day. (A lot of daft folk out there and the last 3 minutes proved it by the number being sponged down.)

Attachment 7110 This race does not have a permit or insurance from the FRA.
Otherwise everyone would soon be required to carry waterproofs & hat & gloves. But not water (unless the RO specified).

[Wheeze]

Voluminous discussion and to and fro-ing on OMM website a coupla years back about definition of waterproof v windproof. I have used a PB bumbag/2 piece rainsuit for over 20 years now. The number of times I have needed it anger?? Once or twice. But I ALWAYS carry it come rain or shine. The ethos has always been that the runner takes prime responsibility for their personal safety. Its one of the reasons I race. I decide what to take within the rules. If its nasty or likely to be, I take gear over and above that rain suit. But I would consider it an imposition if I made a decision to carry that rainsuit rather than a heavier gauge body cover and some jobsworth started having a go that it breached rules. IMHO, if FRA adopts these amendments it is making a rod for its own back, the RO's back and each runners back.

[Stagger]

Voluminous discussion and to and fro-ing on OMM website a coupla years back about definition of waterproof v windproof. I have used a PB bumbag/2 piece rainsuit for over 20 years now. The number of times I have needed it anger?? Once or twice. But I ALWAYS carry it come rain or shine. The ethos has always been that the runner takes prime responsibility for their personal safety. Its one of the reasons I race. I decide what to take within the rules. If its nasty or likely to be, I take gear over and above that rain suit. But I would consider it an imposition if I made a decision to carry that rainsuit rather than a heavier gauge body cover and some jobsworth started having a go that it breached rules. IMHO, if FRA adopts these amendments it is making a rod for its own back, the RO's back and each runners back.

Thank you Wheeze, and very well put Sir.
Similar to what I was trying to say.

[Deek]

Re safety rules, I went to Coniston Country fair yesterday replete with waterproof top/bottoms/whistle/compass/hat and gloves. The race run under FRA rules gave the advice that the FRA said I should carry them all. It was steaming hot, there were a few fairweather clouds, but no sign of a shower or forecast of one. Just seemed daft safety rules to me from a governing body. Why didn't they advise me to hydrate before race, apply sunscreen, wear sunhat, and take it easy? No reflection on race organisers who did a great job and used their initiative.

[Witton Park]

It's interesting that through the work I have been doing in recent years the enforcing agencies and advisory bodies only tend to make recommendations of standards that need to be conformed to where there is a certain EN Standard that can be applied.
eg Foul Weather Protection EN343 is an example.

These agencies are such as the HSE, Coastguard and their colleagues such as RNLI.

When it starts getting too prescriptive without standards, the people who should be responsible can (and have) shrugged their shoulders and said they followed the guidelines.

I can see where some at the FRA are going with this, but I think better would be to avoid going down this route and start putting on safety awareness courses for ROs. It is often the ROs that are thrown at the deep end when the guy who's managed the race for the last 15 years steps aside and someone takes it on, with little or no experience.
The FRA view of
“whole body cover” is an outer layer for the torso with an attached hood (an attached hood, unlike
even the best hat, balaclava etc., will not blow away, be lost or left behind) and that a hat and gloves
should also be carried. For the legs, the outer waterproof layer should reach the ankles; just below
the knee layers are not adequate.
I can see some cutting the sleeves off their rain jackets to save on 100grams

[Witton Park]

Is this going to put the personalised numbers to an end at the Woodentops?
That would be a shame.

[IainR]

Voluminous discussion and to and fro-ing on OMM website a coupla years back about definition of waterproof v windproof. I have used a PB bumbag/2 piece rainsuit for over 20 years now. The number of times I have needed it anger?? Once or twice. But I ALWAYS carry it come rain or shine. The ethos has always been that the runner takes prime responsibility for their personal safety. Its one of the reasons I race. I decide what to take within the rules. If its nasty or likely to be, I take gear over and above that rain suit. But I would consider it an imposition if I made a decision to carry that rainsuit rather than a heavier gauge body cover and some jobsworth started having a go that it breached rules. IMHO, if FRA adopts these amendments it is making a rod for its own back, the RO's back and each runners back.

Expected to you to comment on the National committees...

Can't see what WA have to do with Fell running.... think we all know the WFRA are far more present in welsh fell running...

[andy k]

Re safety rules, I went to Coniston Country fair yesterday ....... It was steaming hot, there were a few fairweather clouds, but no sign of a shower or forecast of one. Just seemed daft safety rules to me from a governing body. .

And several years ago I went to Borrowdale.
It was 20 degrees down in Rosthwiate, warm on the tops, lovely day.
At the top of Dale Head I was in 15th position in the race.
And then, before I could get off the summit plateau, I stopped, literally.
Flat battery, done, knackered.
It took me 1 hour and 44 minutes to make the 2 mile descent to the finish.
I stopped and sat or lay down numerous times
Below the mines I lay amongst the bracken with my waterproof top and trousers and hat and gloves all on, shivering uncontrollably in the sunshine.

eventually I recovered some strength and energy and when I did reach the finish I was fine.

Don't think that things can't go dangerously wrong, even on the finest of days.
Should you run out of energy you will be unable to keep warm.