Walking the BG

[Mark Smith]

Unless you are a mega hero, winning races all over the place I would say it's impossible. You just can't walk up them hills at 3mph. To walk it in 30-35 hours would be good going. You would probably loose 10-15 minutes on the descent from Skidaw against a runner, so you would have to 'walk' up there in 65 minutes to keep a 24 hour schedule. Possible if you are Billy Bland, but not for anyone else.

Spot on. Just do the maths and it's mind boggling

[alwaysinjured]

I am fascinated by the snippet in the BG book that says Billy went back to the maps, to work out the most direct lines to walk. So I wonder what he did in that context?

It is clearly shorter (for example by as much as K) to go up carlside or the valley east of it to skiddaw, (and a tad quicker, though more effort when I tried both of those, but only quicker if you run the road). Even shorter if you know some farmers land to cross to make a beeline for skiddaw little man. So there is a case in point: do you cross private land to go "direct" ? or did he keep to public?

No doubt his line from Calva, is more like the more direct route some of us use through the heather connecting greener rakes lower down well west of the fence that kicks east - and perhaps using the RHS of the stream gulley up as a handrail to Blencathra which again is steeper but more direct.

I have done clough head more direct (but not straight) to great dodd, but it took similar time for me, with more climb, far less distance, (and a drink at the bottom)

Later on for example I am convinced the (more or less) yewbarrow direct line to red pike is right, running or walking.

But Billy "going back to the maps" has me fascinated in what he actually did.
Some direct lines are a nightmare! take Scafell Pike to Mickledore, or ill crag direct to broad crag. Both seem a lot quicker to go well right of the direct line.

So I wonder what routes he actually took?
Maybe someone could ask Gavin who went with him I believe?

STOP PRESS..just noticed, it was an a/c round but the shortest lines are still the same.

[andyblackett]

There is also a direct from Skiddaw summit to Calva, but the slate scree near the summit of Skiddaw is terrible when it's wet, it's pretty much impossible to stay on your feet but, when it's covered in snow it's brilliant.

The direct from Clough Head to Great Dodd is hard work, but would be quicker if you were mega fit.

I wonder if there are any direct lines on leg 5, they would be hard work!

[Bob]

On my very first BG support, either 2002 or 2003, the contender had used one of the early mapping programs but had simply linked top to top in direct lines - I don't think he did this for the bits in and out of Keswick which were a bit closer to the actual line taken. This gave a distance of 60 miles so I'd say that 60 miles is the absolute minimum that gets you to every top.

Using Memory Map I came up with 63 miles, but these are "map miles" so don't take in to account the extra distance due to height gain and loss, i.e. they don't follow the hypotenuse of the slope but its horizontal component. Several people have taken GPS units round with them and they report somewhere between 65 & 66 miles for what most people follow these days (this is pretty much the route described in the notes on my website) though there are one or two more direct lines for short sections but these cross ground that might be regarded as "sensitive" so I have chosen to avoid describing them.

Looking at the BG booklet the sentence is: "By very careful study of the map he got the mileage down to 65..." so it's not "direct lines" as such.

As for direct lines: one might be Dunmail Raise to Steel Fell, I know Yiannis has spoken about using this in the past, looking at the map it's about 150 metres shorter than the line usually taken up to the ridge then follow the fence. Is it any easier under foot to justify taking it? I've never done it - maintaining a diagonal line across a slope is not an easy thing to do.

As an aside: a lot of folk refer to the rakes on Bowfell as "Billy's Rakes" partly on the assumption that he discovered them either for his "walk" or his record round but there's evidence that they were in use for early rounds possibly as far back as Bob Graham himself (He included Hanging Knotts in his list of summits which is just a few metres from where one of the rakes reaches the ridge)

[alwaysinjured]

There is also a direct from Skiddaw summit to Calva, but the slate scree near the summit of Skiddaw is terrible when it's wet, it's pretty much impossible to stay on your feet but, when it's covered in snow it's brilliant.

The direct from Clough Head to Great Dodd is hard work, but would be quicker if you were mega fit.

I wonder if there are any direct lines on leg 5, they would be hard work!

The scree would be less of an issue for them going AntiClock.

The terrain issue has made me wonder whether A/C going Calva to cross the bridge to Skiddaw House (which is fast compared to the boggy path) then taking a line up from there to Skiddaw via Sale How rather than Hare Crag which avoids all the crappy stuff, might be quicker although certainly longer One of the few things I have left yet to try.

I once did something similar the other way, Calva, Skiddaw House, then rising traverse across the fringe of Mungrisdale, cross beck then continuous rising traverse to blencathra. A lot longer in that case, but more runnable and less climb by a couple of hundred feet, and I thought more pleasant too. Did it in 65, which at the time is what I probably would have done the other ways. Certainly not the walkers direct route!

Since I cannot race, I spend time recceing (mostly failing ideas but hey!)

[alwaysinjured]

On my very first BG support, either 2002 or 2003, the contender had used one of the early mapping programs but had simply linked top to top in direct lines - I don't think he did this for the bits in and out of Keswick which were a bit closer to the actual line taken. This gave a distance of 60 miles so I'd say that 60 miles is the absolute minimum that gets you to every top.

Using Memory Map I came up with 63 miles, but these are "map miles" so don't take in to account the extra distance due to height gain and loss, i.e. they don't follow the hypotenuse of the slope but its horizontal component. Several people have taken GPS units round with them and they report somewhere between 65 & 66 miles for what most people follow these days (this is pretty much the route described in the notes on my website) though there are one or two more direct lines for short sections but these cross ground that might be regarded as "sensitive" so I have chosen to avoid describing them.

Looking at the BG booklet the sentence is: "By very careful study of the map he got the mileage down to 65..." so it's not "direct lines" as such.

As for direct lines: one might be Dunmail Raise to Steel Fell, I know Yiannis has spoken about using this in the past, looking at the map it's about 150 metres shorter than the line usually taken up to the ridge then follow the fence. Is it any easier under foot to justify taking it? I've never done it - maintaining a diagonal line across a slope is not an easy thing to do.

As an aside: a lot of folk refer to the rakes on Bowfell as "Billy's Rakes" partly on the assumption that he discovered them either for his "walk" or his record round but there's evidence that they were in use for early rounds possibly as far back as Bob Graham himself (He included Hanging Knotts in his list of summits which is just a few metres from where one of the rakes reaches the ridge)

Interesting.

I never set much store by the "miles" people quote. By the time he walked it he knew the route, so he added a few more direct lines by implication in planning the walk.


I have had a shot at "steel fell direct". Not brilliant, certainly not when the bracken is up.
It is rough. You end up doing a mixture of across a bit. Up abit . Across a bit. To avoid the rocky ground, so I am guessing that it is not that shorter either. But theres the hooker.
If Billy did do direct, he would have crossed dunmail 300m south (or so) so not had the problem of diagonal traverse across various bits of scree you do on the type of route Yianni and I tried, though probably not the same. I can tell you the direct down off seat sandal is no fun. On your bum part of the way, whether by choice or otherwise!

One alternative (I Have done both sides of, but never together!) - is a much more south westerly line of Seat Sandal down that other "nose", zigging back towards the bottom down a slight reentrant. Shhh...ended up climbing something.
Then other side, a route that connected with the SE path up yewbarrow for the higher reaches..
Hundred feet more climb, plays better terrain. ...

Certainly not a "diretissima" I just do some of these for the hell of it!

[wheezing donkey]

Perhaps another thing that needs to be considered is the mechanics of your personal physiology. Both Billy Bland and my good friend Yiannis have been mentioned above, with regard to taking shorter, steeper lines. Billy & Yiannis are both very compact with relatively short legs. On steeper ascents, they are not having to work AGAINST long levers, in mechanical terms they are quite low geared - against which they need to be high-revving (good leg speed) to cover the ground when it is level or descending - albeit shorter legs should afford better stability in descent.

[alwaysinjured]

Perhaps another thing that needs to be considered is the mechanics of your personal physiology. Both Billy Bland and my good friend Yiannis have been mentioned above, with regard to taking shorter, steeper lines. Billy & Yiannis are both very compact with relatively short legs. On steeper ground, they are not having to work AGAINST long levers, in mechanical terms they are quite low geared - against which they need to be high-revving (good leg speed) to cover the ground when it is level or descending - albeit shorter legs should afford better stability in descent.

Definitely. There are runners routes , climbers routes , rough grounders routes, rough descenders routes. Yianni seems to glide across rough stuff, but has said in the past he dislikes long unbroken grassy climbs. So A/C up scafell pike cannot be good!