Safety Matters

[Stick]

It's looking a bit saggy these days

Exactly! (And he does seems to have put on an ENORMOUS amount of weight recently doesn't he. I think it's since he took up sushi...)

[IanDarkpeak]

since when did U/A status denote lack of experience??
So the only way to make fell running safer is to make people go on a nav course and join a club?
Do that and watch the sport wither and die.

Sorry Dave I wasn't implying that all U/A runners have no skill or experience just replying to the Heathens post about the FRA policing standards to all race entries when it can only communicate to FRA members, how does it reach U/A. sorry if I wasn't clear

[OB1]

This is about Race organisers. They provide a service to the sport by hosting the vast array of events for us.
We have to do our utmost to ensure that as long as they do their best, they cannot be dragged through the court system by Joe Pasquale's mob even when mistakes are made by them or their team.

Aye.!

[TheHeathens]

"Save a life or two" my arse.

Exactly what I WOULDN'T like to see in fell running.

'Fell ruining' might be a better name for the sport the way things are developing.

Tell us wharfee.... what WOULD you like to see?

Or are you just a sniper with no ideas of your own? Too afraid to put forward your own ideas to be shot down?

Come on.... Money on the table....

[TheHeathens]

First - who gives the instruction to these athletes? We can see from the numerous different opinions expressed on this forum that our outlooks are quite varied.
Second - who monitors, trains and assesses the instructors?
Thirdly - who sits on "OffRoad", the quango set up to ensure that the quality of training given by the instructors is up to scratch?
Fourth cost. There's a cost to such initiatives and Scuba Diving is an industry, fell running isn't.

Yes I know you have indicated online, but online, offline, by correspondence, in an exam, it doesn't matter, it's using a sledgehammer to crack a nut that isn't even there.

This is not about Safety of Competitors. Without being blasé we have had very few incidents in Fell Running - roughly one fatality per decade and some knocks and trips like Amex and if it can happen to Amex, it can happen to anyone.

This is about Race organisers. They provide a service to the sport by hosting the vast array of events for us.
We have to do our utmost to ensure that as long as they do their best, they cannot be dragged through the court system by Joe Pasquale's mob even when mistakes are made by them or their team.

I as a competitor cannot see a moment in time when I would attempt to do that to an RO. But if I am not there to make the call, I can't vouch for my connections.

WP, google MOOC and see how many Universities are delivering mini university courses at minimal cost.

Course material delivered through videos / presentations using existing case studies (just need a decent presenter!) Examination would be multi-choice. Random 25 questions from a bank of 250 or so. 80% to pass

All done online. Minimal cost after the initial set up.

Questions set and agreed by volunteers with the required experience. I help set exam questions for the Chartered Insurance Institute (albeit paid) - it's not that difficult

[TheHeathens]

None of this precludes you from running on the fells where you take responsibility for your own actions anyway

[wharfeego]

Tell us wharfee.... what WOULD you like to see? Or are you just a sniper with no ideas of your own? Too afraid to put forward your own ideas to be shot down? Come on.... Money on the table....

I'd like to see some common sense, there are too many know-alls commenting about this situation.
Whatever ideas I might put forward will always be shot down.
I'm happy to leave the decisions to the FRA Committee, after all that is what they're there for, whether or not some people disagree with their ideas.
If you want to make a difference then get on the Committee.
I was quite an effective sniper years ago when I used to take out foxes at 300 yards with a .222 full-bore rifle, now I just shoot with a camera.
I haven't caught enough moles this week to put money on the table.
Off up tops to catch some moles now…now where's that risk assessment sheet...

[TheHeathens]

So that's a no then. How does the saying go, "Put up or shut up"?

Join the FRA committee? Are you having a laugh? To be honest, I really don't care much for you, the FRA or Fell RACING in general, I get my enjoyment by running in the fells non-competitively. You know - 'the real spirit of fell running'.

I'm just sick of this thread going back and forth so thought I'd stick my head above the parapet and suggest something different. Not in a million years do I expect the FRA to take this up - it's just a discussion point. I also think that your faith in the FRA is rather misguided considering the complete hash they have made of things so far.

Your comment re risk assessment shows your chronic misunderstanding of what I'm putting forward for discussion & critique (and not for abuse from people who are quick to shoot from the lip but are impotent at the hip).

What does common sense look like? Come on wharfee.... Get involved

[noel]

"Put up or shut up"?

Come on.... Money on the table....

This thread just got interesting. I like your style of facilitation TH.

[TheHeathens]

Hi Heathens. I'm not against the principle of an online training course. I'm thinking back to how I learned my nav skills...started with a book (Mountaincraft - Langmuir) and worked it out myself, trial and error outdoors, days out with my partner in un-known places on nice days, and not nice days, medium fell races in the winter, longer races in the clag etc...a gradual progression. No doubt if Youtube had been around at the time I'd have looked on there too. The point I'm making is that a CBT can start on the right path.

So I agree, the FRA, SHR, WFRA should offer this as a service to members AND non-members alike. (Why not, we are good citizens ard care about all the people who enter all organisation races whether they're members of our parochial organisations or not).

But I don't agree with you on this being the foundation of a certification scheme... Educate yes, Govern no...

Good post stick. Ok, so no certification but the principle is a good idea? 'Certification' could be optional but delivering the material could help save a life (ignore the naysayers like wharfee).

So... rather than talk about it, let's make it happen....

I don't have the necessary hillside skills to create the course information although I am good at researching and more than happy to contribute by putting those skills to good use as well as technological skills.

This could be done independently of the FRA et al - just a series of short online videos offering mountainside survival tips and navigational skills. I'm sure there are videos out there, but this would just be to pull them all together.

Would need volunteers....any takers?