Training runs how long?

[foggon]

Hi,

just trying to decide how much training I need to do for longer races so not blow up and struggle towards end like I have done previously in the longer fell races, so for instance if I expect the race to last around 5hrs covering 20 miles should longer runs be at a slower pace than the race pace but should the duration of the training runs be about 5hrs to get used to running for the planned race time but maybe only covering 15 -16 miles. I know for road marathons I have done previously the max distance I would run pre –race was 20 miles in around 3hrs or so? Or for the mountain race should I be running the full race distance as part of the training?

[andy k]

You can do various things
1 - the race time but cover 75 - 80 % of the distance - so an easier pace
2 - the race effort but for 2/3 of the expected race time.
3 - embed an hour of race effort running in the middle of a long run, with easier running for 90 minutes before and after.
Its probably as much about developing confidence as it is fitness.
Blowing up ? - work on your eating strategy.

[IainR]

Hi,

just trying to decide how much training I need to do for longer races so not blow up and struggle towards end like I have done previously in the longer fell races, so for instance if I expect the race to last around 5hrs covering 20 miles should longer runs be at a slower pace than the race pace but should the duration of the training runs be about 5hrs to get used to running for the planned race time but maybe only covering 15 -16 miles. I know for road marathons I have done previously the max distance I would run pre –race was 20 miles in around 3hrs or so? Or for the mountain race should I be running the full race distance as part of the training?

What's the race? Make it specific. On a road marathon I train 30-45 seconds off marathon pace but like to run the final 3-5 miles closer to race pace.

In the fells I like to be doing the distance and ascent in one, but thats easy as I lived in Snowdonia, so a trot around the Peris was just a nice day.

I could never do similar to race pace in the fells in training.. But plenty of 3-4 hour runs should leave you in decent shape. I'd not get overly concerned by pace, just not too unrealistically slow and few breaks.

[foggon]

thanks for the responses, it is a fell race around 9,000 ft of climbing so most if not all the long training runs will be in the fells, think I will try all three of Andy's points, although I just knacked my ankle in a short race so already had to miss one of the my long runs but hopefully will be back on it in a couple of days. I think part of the reason I blow up is the intensity of my long runs is no where near the intensity of racing so I tend to suffer from cramp after a couple of hours, so think the long runs need to be a bit harder

[IainR]

thanks for the responses, it is a fell race around 9,000 ft of climbing so most if not all the long training runs will be in the fells, think I will try all three of Andy's points, although I just knacked my ankle in a short race so already had to miss one of the my long runs but hopefully will be back on it in a couple of days. I think part of the reason I blow up is the intensity of my long runs is no where near the intensity of racing so I tend to suffer from cramp after a couple of hours, so think the long runs need to be a bit harder

I think race effort is way too hard.. shorter races maybe.. but would you run 18-20 miles at marathon pace when training for a marathon?

Anyway I just couldn't dial into race pace for that long outside of a race situation.. but I'd just do more races of that sort of distance and more shorter races.

But LSD is over played.. S means steady really, people like to be lazy and think it means slow, which means any pace is OK, which it isn't.. so for a marathon that's 30-45-60 seconds max of race pace.. (its just easier to convert to road paces hence marathon talk)… You see some training for a 3:20 marathon running 9-10 minute miles..In the fells when pace is pretty much irrelevant I think we're often too lazy, use it as an excuse to go slow, too much stopping, photos, walking.. all enjoyable but come race day people haven't actually been replicating race situation with 3 hours constant movement.. a 3 hour 'run' will be 2 hours of actual running and 1 hour of picnics and looking at scenery.. physiologically its very different as long breaks allow you to recover, clear lactic acid, get the heart rate down etc..

So the big one for me is constant movement and not too slow..

[Curry]

That's one which I've only just come round to getting in my training, for ages when I was starting training, there would be loads of articles about the 'Long Slow Sunday run'. I never felt I was gaining anything from plodding along. Ever since I've started doing the LSRs at a more steady, quicker pace I feel I've improved a fair bit. To quote Seb Coe "Long Slow Distance breeds long slow runners", or words to that effect!!

[dcglim]

You can do various things
1 - the race time but cover 75 - 80 % of the distance - so an easier pace
2 - the race effort but for 2/3 of the expected race time.
3 - embed an hour of race effort running in the middle of a long run, with easier running for 90 minutes before and after.
Its probably as much about developing confidence as it is fitness.
Blowing up ? - work on your eating strategy.

This is good advice. It works well enough for me to complete AM races comfortably (but not near the front).

WHen me club has a handicap or race, I jog to the club, 60 minutes, race then jog home 60 min, hard going at the end, but it trains you!,

Just need to scale it up for AL RACES.