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Thread: Lactate or power?

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    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Lactate or power?

    Just a problem i'd like to get to the bottom of if possible relating to my performance in race situations. On sunday i was quite happy hanging onto pretty quick runners at the Scamper and didn't feel challenged aerobically at all. When i started to slip back it seemed to be because my legs didn't have the speed any longer, this seemed to be the point of failure not my ability to get enough air in my lungs. Is this likely to be down to a poor lactate threshold or lack of muscle power? I should add i am fairly thin and find 30/32 jeans to be baggy.
    Can't climb for toffee...

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    If this had anything to do with lactate threshold I would have expected you to be breathless. Do you do some of your runs at race speed? Do you do any strength and conditioning work - squats/lunges/split squats/chair squats/single leg squats/glute bridges/chair bridges?

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    Master noel's Avatar
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    Track sessions or road work could help, or just short-ish intervals on the flat. That really helps leg speed.
    No longer "resting"

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    Super Moderator Derby Tup's Avatar
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    Man up and get some 34's

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    Senior Member djglover's Avatar
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    As Noel said, I would recommend some fast road work or track. All the top runners I know or know of are on the track once a week, especially in the run up to a big event. I used to haemorrhage places in races on the downs due to this very problem, but now I can often do the final descent at the same pace as the people I started the race with

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    Super Moderator Derby Tup's Avatar
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    To run fast you have to run fast. dom will be along in a bit to say many runners run their slow runs too fast and their speed work too slow
    Poacher turned game-keeper

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    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
    If this had anything to do with lactate threshold I would have expected you to be breathless. Do you do some of your runs at race speed?
    I was blowing, but felt to be at about 8 on the RPE scale just to lose the ambiguity in that.

    I do my midweek thursday run at tempo pace and have just moved to alternating this with a fartlek style session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
    Do you do any strength and conditioning work - squats/lunges/split squats/chair squats/single leg squats/glute bridges/chair bridges?
    I don't do any of this because currently any heavy work like weights or steep hill work will make my knees hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by noel View Post
    Track sessions or road work could help, or just short-ish intervals on the flat. That really helps leg speed.
    Ok, but what to you reckon the precise cause of the problem is?

    If it's as simple as practicing moving your legs fast, how does cadence come into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by djglover View Post
    As Noel said, I would recommend some fast road work or track. All the top runners I know or know of are on the track once a week, especially in the run up to a big event. I used to haemorrhage places in races on the downs due to this very problem, but now I can often do the final descent at the same pace as the people I started the race with
    I don't have a probelm coming downhill, this problem only exists on the flat or runnable uphills. I don't know whether i'm good as such at descending but i find the assistance of gravity helps me overcome speed issues.
    Can't climb for toffee...

  8. #8
    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Another problem i had during the Scamper was on the long, straight half mile drag through the last pasture field up to Clough Head, Noel will know where i mean. I was then up to about 9 on the RPE scale, but feeling like i could keep it going, if only it weren't for my legs feeling like they were made of lead. I was dropping to a walk on and off, again because my legs just wouldn't keep up and they weren't burning either just very heavy.

    By this time i might aswell have stopped and lit a fag i was losing so many places!
    Can't climb for toffee...

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    Senior Member Alan Lucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr brightside View Post
    Another problem i had during the Scamper was on the long, straight half mile drag through the last pasture field up to Clough Head, Noel will know where i mean. I was then up to about 9 on the RPE scale, but feeling like i could keep it going, if only it weren't for my legs feeling like they were made of lead. I was dropping to a walk on and off, again because my legs just wouldn't keep up and they weren't burning either just very heavy.

    By this time i might aswell have stopped and lit a fag i was losing so many places!
    Possibly muscle damage (micro tears to muscle tissue) due to a lack of conditioning (or specific conditioning anyway).

    Just done the Lakes Sky ultra and have severe DOMS today, due to not doing enough hill work. Yet I did the Grand tour of Skiddaw which is much more in line with my training, and had very little DOMS. So, much less muscle damage. Slightly contradictory though, my legs felt heavier at the end of the GTS. But there was much more running in that. Muscle damage can slow runners down on almost any length of runs apparently, it just may not be severe enough to feel any pain from it in the form of DOMS.
    Last edited by Alan Lucker; 14-09-2015 at 08:47 PM.

  10. #10
    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lucker View Post
    Possibly muscle damage due to a lack of conditioning (or specific conditioning anyway).

    Just done the Lakes Sky ultra and have severe DOMS today, due to not doing enough hill work. Yet I did the Grand tour of Skiddaw which is much more in line with my training, and had very little DOMS. So, much less muscle damage. Slightly contradictory though, my legs felt heavier at the end of the GTS. But there was much more running in that. Muscle damage can slow runners down on almost any length of runs apparently, it just may not be severe enough to feel any pain from it in the form of DOMS.
    It won't be muscle damage, i don't train or run enough, it's a lack of some type of conditioning. It looks like from the pre-Dom's twopenneth concensus on here so far, it's likely to be lack of condition of fast twitch muscle fibres, rectified by weight sessions or fast track work or both.
    Can't climb for toffee...

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